Converted Caliber Antiques- The Catch-22 The CFC has created

IRUNGUNS

IRUNGUNS

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Converted Caliber Antiques- The Catch-22 The CFC has created

I know most of you guys that follow the antique section of CGN already know that you no longer can obtain antique letters for converted caliber antiques. I don’t know if everyone knows what the repercussions may be for those that currently own these converted antiques without a letter..

I just had a rather frustrating and dissapointing conversation to say the least with two separate CFC techs. The first tech seamed reasonable but his hands must have been tied and he didn’t have a lot of answers. What the second tech told me was quite angering. I was inquiring about obtaining antique letters for pre-1898 Antiques that were originally in a non antique caliber and were converted to a caliber that is not on the no go list. I never obtained letters for these firearms originally as a personal choice as I do not believe the CFC needs to know what you own other than what you are legally required to tell them IE restricted firearms. I have edited the conversation for length but here are the main points:



Me: Since the CFC has changed their internal policy regarding issuing letters for pre 98 antiques that started out life in a non-antique caliber and we converted to an antique caliber, what is the legal status of firearms currently in the country that fall under this category?

RCMP Tech: As long as the firearm already has an RCMP letter you are fine

ME: I do not have letters but these antique pistols were in the country before you changed your policy so what is their legal status?

RCMP Tech: They would be restricted firearms

ME: Since the RCMP antique letter is not a legal requirement for owning an antique how can having this letter change the legal status of my gun from restricted to antique? Also since there has been no change in the law only the CFC’s policy how can this be?

RCMP Tech: (LONG PAUSE) We update our policies all of the time

Me: what about the precedent that has been set by all of the letters the CFC has already granted to guns like this?

RCMP Tech: We changed our policy.

ME: You cant have it both ways, you are saying that anyone that has a converted antique with a letter in Canada is fine but since I don’t have a letter my guns are restricted? How can that be? The letter is not a legal
requirement and does not change the legal status of the firearm..

RCMP TECH: (PAUSE)

ME: So if I have receipts showing these converted antiques were imported before the policy change can I have a letter for my guns?

RCMP TECH: No

ME: Why

RCMP TECH Because its our policy.

ME: This logic makes no sense, these firearms were in Canada before your policy changed and there was/is no requirment for a letter. Why cant I have a letter?

RCMP Tech: Because I don’t have to give you one. You can apply to have you firearms registered and we will look at it then.

Me: Um you said I wasn’t getting one. I know in order to get an antique letter you want an application to register but since you said I couldn’t get one due to policy that means my guns will be registered as restricted..

RCMP Tech: Yes

ME : Sorry but your answers are not acceptable can I please speak to your supervisor?

RCMP Tech: Hes not in call back tomorrow.

ME: Thanks for your time and have a nice day


Steve
 
I call the NFA (I am a business member) The guy felt my pain , and told me I should consider sending them back to the USA. I dont want to send them to the USA I want the RCMP to stop making up the law as they go along without facing any reprocussions. This is more totalitarian than an OIC. This is like having a business where wearing company attire is optional. Some staff wear it some dont. Then one day the boss says every employee needs to wear Company attire from now on or they will be fired. The store policy has changed, only the boss has no more company attire to dish out so only the employees that took the optional clothes still have a job. Would that fly in society?

Steve
 
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I telephoned the RCMP-CFC when this started, and together with an "extension 1090 tech" read SOR-98/464's s.7 word-for-word.


14 words in, the RCMP-CFC "tech" said "I can't give you a statement, I need you to talk to my superior".
 
cyclone said:
I telephoned the RCMP-CFC when this started, and together with an "extension 1090 tech" read SOR-98/464's s.7 word-for-word.


14 words in, the RCMP-CFC "tech" said "I can't give you a statement, I need you to talk to my superior".
Click to expand...

Cyclone I would be very interested in your opinion on where to take this matter. I understand the antique handgun community in Canada is small but its the principal of it. Im sure the RCMP sees this policy change as "Closing a loophole" when in fact they are making de facto law changes.

Steve
 
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arrrgghhh.......#### those guys is all I have to say, and they're damn lucky CGN censors me...


this just means that for now, any antiques that already are grandfathered or never were in a no-go caliber are worth even more and will be harder to find.

I really hope that one of the "rumors" that are circulating are that they put the kybosh on antique caliber crap. pre 1898 is all that should matter...
 
There is nothing saying you need the RCMP letter. They aren't honouring the old ones anyway.
There is a . Pdf here on a similar thread that has a letter you fill in. It basically quotes the pertinent act, lists the legal calibres, and you fill in your info.
That should be all you need to show any LEO.
 
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DOOK said:
There is nothing saying you need the RCMP letter. They aren't honouring the old ones anyway.
There is a . Pdf here on a similar thread that has a letter you fill in. It basically quotes the pertinent act, lists the legal calibres, and you fill in your info.
That should be all you need to show any LEO.
Click to expand...

Are you aware the CFC also added converted guns to the FRT? The Colt 1889 and 1892 show restricted amd prohib FRT #'s for .38 Special, etc (depending on barrel length). So if you have an 1889 or 1892 Colt double action in 38 special that started its life as a 38 long colt and you get pulled over by a police officer and he calls it in and comes back with a restricted or prohibited FRT # have fun trying to get the rest of your guns back as they drag you through court.
 
One question that has yet to be answered is: how does one determine an individual guns original calibre?

I thought . 38sp was a good calibre. Nothing has changed in law. Wtf?
What about single action?
 
IRUNGUNS said:
Cyclone I would be very interested in your opinion on where to take this matter. I understand the antique handgun community in Canada is small but its the principal of it. Im sure the RCMP sees this policy change as "Closing a loophole" when in fact they are making de facto law changes.

Steve
Click to expand...


My question to the RCMP-CFC "extension 1090 tech" was "has SOR-98/464 changed since December 1, 1998?" - the answer was a resounding "NO".


And then sheepishness and evasiveness from the RCMP-CFC.


Unlike non-restricted firearms, the categorization of antiques are clearly defined in (15+ year old) legal regulation.....so the FRT table "fiddling" is nowhere near the same as the Swiss Arms/CZ reclassification, when it comes to legal effect or any other effect.
 
I agree with Cyclones take on this. SOR -98 has not changed.
if you have and non Rcmp lettered pre 1898 gun in a OK cartridge and theres no way to tell what its original cartridge was then its still antique even with the new stupid policy in effect there rcmp letters dont make guns antique the laws make guns antique.

If theres no way to tell what the original cartridge the gun was made in and you have it now in a OK cartridge then your OK.

The guys who deregistered 38 Long colt 1889s and 1892s in Canada and turned them into 38 sps just wont be able to do that anymore.
But its only the fact them guns were registered in Canada that the RCMP know they were 38 long Colt to start with.

Remember antique hand guns in OK cartridges to start with can be changed to 38 sp and other cartridges not on the stupid list.
And if theres no way to tell what a guns original cartridge was then it to is OK but you might have to send in pictures of the guns if you want a letter from the RCMP .
Im not getting letters on guns in orignal antique cartridges anymore unless buyers ask for them.
Some you have to if there made pre and post 1898.

Yes its like they want a start a fight . I think we can get this changed back im not sure which MPs to talk to but Gary B comes to mind.
 
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dingus said:
I agree with Cyclones take on this. SOR -98 has not changed.
if you have and non Rcmp lettered pre 1898 gun in a OK cartridge and theres no way to tell what its original cartridge was then its still antique even with the new stupid policy in effect there rcmp letters dont make guns antique the laws make guns antique.

If theres no way to tell what the original cartridge the gun was made in and you have it now in a OK cartridge then your OK.

The guys who deregistered 38 Long colt 1889s and 1892s in Canada and turned them into 38 sps just wont be able to do that anymore.
But its only the fact them guns were registered in Canada that the RCMP know they were 38 long Colt to start with.

Remember antique hand guns in OK cartridges to start with can be changed to 38 sp and other cartridges not on the stupid list.
And if theres no way to tell what a guns original cartridge was then it to is OK but you might have to send in pictures of the guns if you want a letter from the RCMP .
Im not getting letters on guns in orignal antique cartridges anymore unless buyers ask for them.
Some you have to if there made pre and post 1898.

Yes its like they want a start a fight . I think we can get this changed back im not sure which MPs to talk to but Gary B comes to mind.
Click to expand...

I want to push back on this as well. Its also not ok that they will not follow the law and de-register antique guns that are restricted and have been converted..

Ill try and call Mr. Solomon Friedman tomorrow.

Steve
 
DOOK said:
There is nothing saying you need the RCMP letter. They aren't honouring the old ones anyway.
There is a . Pdf here on a similar thread that has a letter you fill in. It basically quotes the pertinent act, lists the legal calibres, and you fill in your info.
That should be all you need to show any LEO.
Click to expand...

Do you have the link?
 
IRUNGUNS said:
I want to push back on this as well. Its also not ok that they will not follow the law and de-register antique guns that are restricted and have been converted..

Ill try and call Mr. Solomon Friedman tomorrow.

Steve
Click to expand...

If you have good contacts then go for it . i know John Duncan hes my MP i will wait closer to the ellection and see what he can do about it he offered me to put forward a Bill to have the Cartridge list abolished or amended, he helped me get a couple guns unseized from customs like 8 years ago. I can call him again but hes not really a great MP for this issiue.
Gary B is supose to be good to but honestly the guys been promiseing to meld POLs into PALs for years but ive not seen anything come of his efforts.
if he is in some CGNers rideing its always best for them to contact him.
If every antique gun collector on this forum just contacted the MP we decide is the best to put a push back forward we might get something done.
With the Swiss SA rifle reclasify the RCMP can use that its a scarry Baby killing machine gun but what are they gona say about antique handguns that have never even been used in a crime in Canada. I think it makes the RCMP seem abit desprate to me at least and even regular Joe type MP is gona see that to.

Once we have the MP to push it then we just post here and keep bumping it till ever antique gun collector sends a email to that MP
My writeing skills are very poor but i can get my point accross i think theres others here much better at that than me.
 
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Thanks Dingus. I have met Gary B in Vegas this year at the NFA get together at shot and he seems like a good man doing the best he can behind the scenes. I will contact my MP again regarding this issue and see what if anything can be started to get the ball rolling.

Steve
 
The more people making "in their face" noise about these abuses the better. I'm not currently affected by this bureaucratic overstep but it is completely unacceptable and I will continue to complain about it as well.
 
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