Hello. New muzzle loader checking in1

emmab

emmab

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Hello i've just traded up to a TC Hawken .54 ca, which inluded all the stuff needed, and I haven't shot it yet. I've read the posts and am quite confident that there will be no problems but I do have a few questions.
If i'm using a moose milk type lube ie cutting fluid,murphys, alcohol water or windex, can this be used as a solvent between shots or as needed?

What are the chances of the roundball getting stuck in the bore? I understand about forgetting to load the rifle so I'll attempt to avoid this. I am using .531" dia lead roundball with some round cotton cleaning patches that were pre-cut to 1.5" dia. I have no clue how thick they are but I would say the patches are as thick as a heavy Tee shirt. Ive cut my own too ranging around .925" and 1.25" dia. I haven't tried to start a roundball yet so I don't know which should fit. I assume my smaller patch would be a good start. Is it better to spray or dip the patche and ring out to just damp?l

I also have the bore butter stuff and sno seal type boot protector paste. Is this good for patches or is moosemilk type better?

Is it better to use petrolium ie CLP, MOBIL1 for the barrel when left for awhile? Then clean with isoprop alcohol?

Thanks. Everybody seems to have a "best" concocotion or method so I'm a little confused and my big shooting day is coming up!!! So if that setup looks good to you experts and you can fill in the blanks, I'll be up and running!

Thanks in advance and any basic info that Ive miissed will be appreciated.
cheers
 
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Greetings and welcome-Done right this a fun sport that can be addictive. First rule is don't overcomplicate things. Your cotton cleaning patches will be too thick as far as I can tell. Your patch should be about barrel diameter or a bit more. For your use I would try about 15 thou thick and to be real simple find a package of prelubed patches by Traditions for starters. You can get into patch making and lube experimentation later. Don't worry about the ball sticking in the bore-if it went down on top of powder it will definitely come out. My opinion is that non-petroleum products are better for the gun but when I store it I do use oiled patches to protect the bore. When shooting this piece after about 15 shots or so it will start to coke up so if it does- after loading I will wad up a patch-deposit a large amount of spit in the muzzle then push the wad down to the ball. Cleans out nicely for the next 5 then repeat. If you use fffg as powder it might not be necessary. I like to use ffg in this cal because of the gentler touch-off. You will find this a great sport with lots of knowledgeable folks willing to help. Enjoy
 
Hey Emmab, I'm no expert but i'll try to help. The one thing that stood out to me in your questions was your patching material. When shooting Patched Round Ball (PRB), the diameter of the ball and patch combined ought to equal or give a slight interference fit. So, a .54 cal ought to take a .53 sized ball and 10 thou patch. In order to increase accuracy significantly, opt for an interference fit of something like .535 ball (in pure lead...not that wheel weight sh1t) and a 10 thou patch.

Your patching material is most important as well. Regardless of the thickness you are looking for, patching material should be a heavily dense weave cotton. Some guys use denim (jeans) of the appropriate thickness, but "pillow ticking" is what you're really after and can be found at places like "Fabric Land" or the like. The denseness of the material prevents it from burning in the barrel upon ignition of the powder which causes lost velocity and accuracy. (can also start a fire when the grass is dry in the summer...something to keep in mind).

The lube you use is really up to you. I've used everything from mare's milk, to bore butter (my favorite), to my own spit (patch material kept between cheek and gum ready for the next shot!:)). Anything but dry pretty much works, what will work for you is something for you to discover, which is all part of BP shooting.

The size of the patch needs to be large enough to come past the center plane of the ball, but if its longer it's no big deal. Just don't have them undersized. If you go for the pillow ticking, cut it into long strips. Lube the end with whatever, start the ball flush with the muzzle and trim the ticking ribbon with a sharp knife...perfect size every time!\

Lastly, "Dry balling" or getting the ball stuck in the bore, (more likely that you begin to ram the ball and have forgot to put the powder down the barrel first. {ie...dry balling}), happens more often than you'd think. When I first started shooting BP, something as simple as a conversation being struck up while I was in the loading sequence would totally screw me 4 out of 5 times {keep your comments low for now, the older guys know what I mean}. When in doubt, dump the load and start over. Mark your ram rods with target load and hunting load indications. AND BUY A BALL PULLER, A GOOD ONE THAT'S PROPERLY AFFIXED TO A GOOD RANGE ROD (brass)...you will use it, and without it, your range trip comes to an immediate, unexpected halt...ask me how I know!? ;)

Let us know how you make out, and I personally like to see pics of targets with holes in 'em:).
 
Thanks. I thought my patch stuff might be too thick with the.53 ball. How can you tell the thickness of the ticking or other material. Does the thickness appear on a label or can one mic it[look a
Little funny running around the fabric store with a micrometer]
Cheers
 
You could ask sales staff, but they may not know. You can always spot the BP shooter in Fabric Land. He's the one that has at least 3 sales staff running bolts of linen back and forth as he measures with...a micrometer;). Pillow ticking is normally blue/white stripped, and comes in 2 or 3 different weights {hence the mic}.
 
plinker 777 said:
You could ask sales staff, but they may not know. You can always spot the BP shooter in Fabric Land. He's the one that has at least 3 sales staff running bolts of linen back and forth as he measures with...a micrometer;). Pillow ticking is normally blue/white stripped, and comes in 2 or 3 different weights {hence the mic}.
Click to expand...

^= he he Yup. I'll never forget this old fellow who was learnin' me how to shoot BP - we did exactly that. It was probably 1985 but I remember it like it was yesterday.
 
1. Patch thickness will be either .010 and .015 for a .530 ball, and only your rifle knows for sure which load it likes. Don't run down to fabricland until you know for sure. I preferred denim over pillow ticking. Always have a looksy at recovered patches as they tell you a lot about what's going on with the load ( heat / pressure ).

2. There are many recipes for "moose milk" which is essentially wax, crisco, and Murphy's oil soap heated and mixed varied portions. Played that game, now I just by the yellow snot from TC.

3. I am a big believer of Windex for swabbing and end of day cleaning, and A light coat of CLP.


Have fun, Hakx
 
I think your rifle has a 1:48 twist and you live in Vancouver so if you want to try some 330 grain R.E.A.L bullets let me know.
I shoot up at PCDHFC.
The thing with these bullets is that you don't need any patch and as advertised you don't need to swab the bore after a few shots.
Here is a picture:

 
A shooting buddy has the same rifle in percussion. He found that a .530 ball with a patch lubed in lithium grease works great. His preferred load is 80gns of Pyrodex RS. He tried some ffg black powder recently and we found that the balls weren't grouping quite as tightly so he's going to play with the load so he has options for Pyrodex or proper BP.

He hasn't hunted with it for a few years now but when he lived in Alberta he took a half dozen or more deer with it. If he didn't come home with Freezer Fodder it sure wasn't the rifle's fault.

For patch lube there's any number of options. I recently shared his rifle for a day of shooting and I found that the lithium greased patches with the BP worked just fine. Ramming the balls down stayed very consistent over the course of the 55'ish shots we loaded through the day between the two of us. No need to swab. However take note that with ANY muzzle loader you'll get a difference in velocity and aim point from the first clean bore shot to the next one or two fouled bore shots.

In my case I use a wet lube of 1:4 Ballistol:water. This makes up a white "Moose Milk" lube that works well for me. It keeps the bore slick and consistent through a whole day of shooting without any between shot swabbing out. Others use a soup of Murphy's Oil Soap with just a hint of water in it. I've even seen a few that do it the original way by putting the patch into their mouth to lube it with saliva while powdering. All of these options worked just fine for our whole black powder trail shoot with 25 targets. And many shoot the trail then walk it back again shooting at selected targets a second time for fun. There's no time for barrel swabbing during all this. So each has come up with a way of lubing the patches that keeps the bores consistently clean. Or, more accurately, fouled to a light and consistent degree that doesn't unduly affect ramming the ball home.

Now I'm not a hunter so much of what I say next depends on the practicalities and legalities at your locations. Depending on what you're doing I'd say that you want to either set it up for a clean bore and swab out before the second shot or load and shoot two fouling shots before loading your hunting load for that day. And of course at the end of the day you would shoot out the loaded ball before cleaning. The idea being to always take the important shot from a clean bore or a fouled bore depending on how you expect to hunt.

An alternative to shooting out the last load is a CO2 bicycle filler that you press over the cap nipple and blow the charge and ball out using the CO2 pressure instead of shooting it out.

Or, of course, if you're there for a couple of days simply mark it as loaded in some manner and leave it until the last day. THEN shoot or blow it out and clean the bore.

In the circumstance of a dry ball it is good to have a nipple wrench and some small amount of ffffg fine powder. The 4fg powder can be loaded and hand bumped to get enough powder down into the chamber to allow you to shoot out the dry ball. Or, again, the CO2 bicycle tire filler will do the job just fine without having to remove the nipple.
 
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Thanks so much for all the great information. I'll use these posts for reference for quite sometime I'm sure! I've just spoken to one of our site sponsors, Rusty Wood Trading and Im going to stop by there on my way out to the shoot. I'll look into getting the items suggested like pre lubed patches and some extra ball and maybe some different powder to try as well. I have all the stuff needed to make up some Home Brew lube and solvent but Ill look for ballistol and bore butter to start. It will be alot easier using some pre packed ingredients to start there by following the KISS rule. Im sure this will make the whole expereience more enjoyable. I do live in Vancouver and I am a poco member too and and am planning to attend a BP shoot one Sunday for sure. Thanks for the invite to try your cast conicals. Ill have a look for something like that too. So i figure Ill just take some Windex and rubbing alcohol and CLP(unless there is something better) from home and buy what i need out at Rustys. I have two powders at the moment, 2fg and 3fg. Would the recommended charge of 80-90 grains apply to both types of powder or should the charge differ with the powder? We will be out in the woods for a few days and I hope these few items will be enough to shoot for the weekend. All my friends want a go with it so it should be fun. Once again thanks for the quick replies and Ill try and get some pics of our unfortunate(hopefully with a hole in it! LOL) targets! Cheers
 
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Welcome to the club...as for the KISS method. That's the best place to start.When I cut my eye teeth in BP...it was with a .54.....530 ball with a 15 thou patch. I to was wondering about home made moose milk and such and made some up,but decided for outta the gate,keep it simple. An you know what? It works just fine.The patches I am using are prelubed,so be wary as they can start fires real easy as I found out.I figure that a little later down the road I could work on different lubes and patch thickness...that was 3 years ago and haven't done it yet.If you are shooting in a heavy dry fire area,and using any type of moose milk,do a torch test on it.Wet a patch,hit it with a propane torch for 5 seconds...it shouldn't smoulder or burn ,or you have a fire hazard!!
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I think your rifle has a 1:48 twist and you live in Vancouver so if you want to try some 330 grain R.E.A.L bullets let me know.
I shoot up at PCDHFC.
The thing with these bullets is that you don't need any patch and as advertised you don't need to swab the bore after a few shots.
Here is a picture:

Click to expand...

OP, if you can, take Skinny up on his offer. The R.E.A.L. Boolits are the epitome of the K.I.S.S. principal for BP rifle shooting! Pocket full 'O Boolits w/tin of caps, canister of B.Butter, horn of powder and you're off to the races. If I could only find a .45 mold:(.
 
Looks like you have more than enough info to get you going on the straight and narrow. The tip on taking out the nipple and working powder in to shoot out a Dry Ball is right on-you only need about 3 or 4 grains to do the job. As for powder start with 60 grains of ffg or 55 grains of fffg and that will be good for target shooting. Modify later as you fine tune what works best in your piece. If hunting then go for the gusto around 90 grains. You're on the right path-play safe and remember the mantra-POWDER,PATCH,BALL.
 
Haha I get it now. That brings me to the point of this post. Well we had great time with the 54 cal. We started at 50 grains of FFg and stopped at 75 grains. The rifle was very accurate and printed well. We got all the supplies on the way out of town,and shot for 3 days. Even picked up a Lyman new model navy .36 cal which surprisingly was ready for pick up on the return trip. I guess the CFO is running in high gear with only restricted to worry about. I have one question which surfaced after surfing the net and that is using CO2 to discharge or empty a muzzle loader. Has anyone used this portable method and if so where can we find these kits in canada. I see cabelas In the US has them but won't ship here. Any ideas where to get one as I think this could be a change from ball pulling with a rod when the occasion occurs. Thanks again for the fast replies and I'll try and get some pics or videos up soon.
 
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I've never used or seen one. I've either pulled the ball by hand or trickled powder under the nipple and fired it out. Try Ellwood Epps site sponsor as they stock most everything BP related. I've never seen one there, but then again I wasn't looking for it so...
 
It's mostly been covered but here's my 2C rounded up to 5 because we don't have cents any more :p

For cleaning I just use hot soapy water. A tub works best, but if you get in trouble for leaving black grease rings in the tub, a big bucket or wash basin works ok. Old laundry tubs work great. Fill with hot water and degreasing dish soap and go to town with the bore brush then patches. Some bores can hold ungodly amounts of fouling and they'll definitely rust if given the chance. I've got a mountain rifle that wouldn't reliably fire when I first got it - soaked and scrubbed for three hours and finally popped a .5 inch long nugget of fouling out of the barrel with a tiny flash channel in it! Inspected the bore after with a light and the first inch or two of the bore from the plug looks quite rough, but the gun still shoots like a hot damn so the only downside is that cleaning takes forever. After cleaning thoroughly oil with a heavy oil or grease to avoid rusting. Using very hot water helps dry the gun.

For lube, non-synthetics seem the best for me. I save my bacon and hamburger grease and make tallow (It's easy! This guy's great... just repeat the water steps to get all the salt out of the tallow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXaYCWZ8NYY ). Add some bees wax for the right consistency and it's pretty decent. Then again, I almost always end up just chewing some patch material and using my spit... don't have to worry about your patches and lube molding... or planning in advance and making patches :p

For dry balling - pulling the nipple and tricking some powder into the gun that way seems to work. Just tap it down into the barrel with the ball fully seated and you should at least get it to leave the barrel.




That's about it, it's a fun sport and refreshingly easy on the wallet!
 
Thanks. Great info. I'll look into getting some fine powder in the FFFF style or grind some down. And some extra nipples to have around. Can't go wrong with extra nipples! I understand Thompson Center nipples are 1/4 x 28 with the only difference being side lock or in line so that shouldn't be too hard to find. I guess no one in Canada has the CO2 discharge kit so I'll give up on that. The idea sounded good,but-not available.Now I have to get up to the range with the revolver next and see how that goes. Cheers
 
Have a friend who uses a small plug in tire inflater to do the job. His flinter has a removeable touch hole and he screws in a made up tire valve in the appropriate size/thread and when the pressure gets up to about 65 pounds-out the ball comes. Watch where the muzzle is pointed!! Perhaps something similar with 1/4x28 thread would work.
 
wr.sainsbury said:
Have a friend who uses a small plug in tire inflater to do the job. His flinter has a removeable touch hole and he screws in a made up tire valve in the appropriate size/thread and when the pressure gets up to about 65 pounds-out the ball comes. Watch where the muzzle is pointed!! Perhaps something similar with 1/4x28 thread would work.
Click to expand...

Good idea. I've read about screwing in a grease zirk and pumping it out. The co2 thing is portable which I thought would be handy but just shooting out the ball makes sense if you are in a area where you can do it
 
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