Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
About six feet, but given the bullet doesn't slow down meaningfully out to 50 plus yards, wouldn't have any effect. Shot placement is just a lot easier that close, so the long Schofield shot is mighty impressive.
Colt DA or Colt SAA
- Thread starter cory moffat
- Start date
I didn't know you had bought any of my bullets. Hopefully you won't be tempted to shoot them in one of those dangerous webleys converted to .45acp. A local expert has pronounced them to be absolutely dangerous beyond question. 
I would like to learn more about your fence post bullet testing methodology. Were you shooting with the grain or against? penetrating heartwood or just the softer outer growth rings? Any knots internally? Were the posts cut in winter or summer? Green or well aged wood? Moisture content? Internal dry rot? From live trees or fire kill? That's a few of the things that would influence the hardness and therefore your "test" results. I could help you improve your methodology if you show me the pictures or videos. Then maybe you could write an article on it.
Regarding my "cement"; it is from a recipe I copied down from an article written by Bob Milek (sp?) probably before you were potty trained. I liked Mr. Milek's writing, one of his farts probably had more collective intelligence than possessed by the total gun writers alive and plying their craft today.
My "cement" is homogenous and made from a fixed recipe . It is consistent from test to test and therefore valid for comparing pentration rates of various cartridges. I wouldn't be able to say the same about a fence post, unfortunately. Sorry about that.
I am sure you have shot a lot of game and are highly experienced at some things. However I admit I did question your experience level when you seemed to assume that No 7.5 lead shot would penetrate 6" of meat. I think you were having a brain fart and got meat and ballistic gel confused. Or maybe the geese in your area are made of jello?
Can you tell me what signifigance carrying the 41 in your airplane for "years" had, since it didn't seem to relate any useful data or information? Or did you imply the little gun became more powerful simply by beaing close to the great man? LOL.
As much as I enjoy exchanging pleasantries with you it is probably boring for the other members so I will sign off.
I don't have any dislike for the 41LC. It is likely somewhat better than a 38 spl with regards to "stopping" power. But it is not and never will be remarkable in that regard. It is a fun little cartridge to shoot and that should be enough.
I would like to learn more about your fence post bullet testing methodology. Were you shooting with the grain or against? penetrating heartwood or just the softer outer growth rings? Any knots internally? Were the posts cut in winter or summer? Green or well aged wood? Moisture content? Internal dry rot? From live trees or fire kill? That's a few of the things that would influence the hardness and therefore your "test" results. I could help you improve your methodology if you show me the pictures or videos. Then maybe you could write an article on it.
Regarding my "cement"; it is from a recipe I copied down from an article written by Bob Milek (sp?) probably before you were potty trained. I liked Mr. Milek's writing, one of his farts probably had more collective intelligence than possessed by the total gun writers alive and plying their craft today.
My "cement" is homogenous and made from a fixed recipe . It is consistent from test to test and therefore valid for comparing pentration rates of various cartridges. I wouldn't be able to say the same about a fence post, unfortunately. Sorry about that.
I am sure you have shot a lot of game and are highly experienced at some things. However I admit I did question your experience level when you seemed to assume that No 7.5 lead shot would penetrate 6" of meat. I think you were having a brain fart and got meat and ballistic gel confused. Or maybe the geese in your area are made of jello?
Can you tell me what signifigance carrying the 41 in your airplane for "years" had, since it didn't seem to relate any useful data or information? Or did you imply the little gun became more powerful simply by beaing close to the great man? LOL.
As much as I enjoy exchanging pleasantries with you it is probably boring for the other members so I will sign off.
I don't have any dislike for the 41LC. It is likely somewhat better than a 38 spl with regards to "stopping" power. But it is not and never will be remarkable in that regard. It is a fun little cartridge to shoot and that should be enough.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Happy to oblige you in gentleman's debate, in short point form to keep it simple.
-I've killed something of reasonable size with the .41 in the vitals, and shot it through planks, and it impressed me. As such, I've carried it in my day job flying up north for quite some time as its performance pleased me, and it makes an excellent woods cartridge. Not a difficult concept or stretch of reasoning.
-While you keep saying fenceposts, you've become confused, I use 3" rough cut spruce planks for informal penetration tests. Gives a damn good ballpark what penetrates better, sounds just like your mixture's purpose for you. Anyone familiar with lumber knows all the characteristics of it, and how it is cut, and the only way one would shoot planks. If you'd like a primer on it, see your local lumber yard. But speaking of fenceposts, I'd also enjoy watching a seminar on how to shoot a fencepost with, and against the grain in a meaningful way, it would be very Canadian!
-7.5 shot, I quoted calibrated ballistics gelatin penetration and it says so right where I wrote it, afraid you become confused there and somehow assumed I meant geese. We keep wandering off the subject here. I will agree the real world of meat doesn't always line up with ballistics gelatin.
-Very familiar with Mr. Milek, he passed away in the 90's and I read his stuff with gusto. I'd have liked him even more if he wasn't such a fan of fast and light rifle rounds like the .25-06 for big game. Would be useful to have mentioned your gelatin composition, as standard ballistics gelatin is a heck of a lot softer than what you're shooting.
-Yes, your .455 slugs work fantastic out of my flat top target .455, and standard SAA .455. I've flown with your bullets loaded in the work machine, as well, they've seen some country.
-We agree the .41 is a decent cartridge. It outperforms the .38 Special, and provides a reasonable level of performance for one of the true antique cartridges not on the no go list. We both have different methods of testing that, and hopefully, they'll come to compliment each other rather than be at odds.
-You're right, I still don't like 117 year old + guns chambered in a cartridge over their proof pressures.
-I've killed something of reasonable size with the .41 in the vitals, and shot it through planks, and it impressed me. As such, I've carried it in my day job flying up north for quite some time as its performance pleased me, and it makes an excellent woods cartridge. Not a difficult concept or stretch of reasoning.
-While you keep saying fenceposts, you've become confused, I use 3" rough cut spruce planks for informal penetration tests. Gives a damn good ballpark what penetrates better, sounds just like your mixture's purpose for you. Anyone familiar with lumber knows all the characteristics of it, and how it is cut, and the only way one would shoot planks. If you'd like a primer on it, see your local lumber yard.
But speaking of fenceposts, I'd also enjoy watching a seminar on how to shoot a fencepost with, and against the grain in a meaningful way, it would be very Canadian!-7.5 shot, I quoted calibrated ballistics gelatin penetration and it says so right where I wrote it, afraid you become confused there and somehow assumed I meant geese. We keep wandering off the subject here. I will agree the real world of meat doesn't always line up with ballistics gelatin.
-Very familiar with Mr. Milek, he passed away in the 90's and I read his stuff with gusto. I'd have liked him even more if he wasn't such a fan of fast and light rifle rounds like the .25-06 for big game. Would be useful to have mentioned your gelatin composition, as standard ballistics gelatin is a heck of a lot softer than what you're shooting.
-Yes, your .455 slugs work fantastic out of my flat top target .455, and standard SAA .455. I've flown with your bullets loaded in the work machine, as well, they've seen some country.
-We agree the .41 is a decent cartridge. It outperforms the .38 Special, and provides a reasonable level of performance for one of the true antique cartridges not on the no go list. We both have different methods of testing that, and hopefully, they'll come to compliment each other rather than be at odds.
-You're right, I still don't like 117 year old + guns chambered in a cartridge over their proof pressures.
Gee,. if I knew you were such a big fan of my bullets I would have asked for permission to use your name for an endorsement. Probably sell millions.
Actually I'd epect fence posts to be easier to calibrate than rough sawn lumber. With lumber you have less control of what part of the tree it comes from, and all the other variables I mentioned earlier still apply.
You'd probably get more repeatable results from the fence posts.
Actually I'd epect fence posts to be easier to calibrate than rough sawn lumber. With lumber you have less control of what part of the tree it comes from, and all the other variables I mentioned earlier still apply.
You'd probably get more repeatable results from the fence posts.
Aww shucks. I thought a guy so full of caustic comments would be capable of taking some good natured ribbing. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not at all it's hard to take the argument too seriously so no harm done. And feel free to message me some of these mysterious caustic comments.
Keep on .41'ing. To the thread I have a custom barrel being bored to .385 right now, with a .38-55 cutter run 3 thou deeper per groove, to finally modernize the .41. Rechambering a .357 cylinder with a custom reamer that will have actual chamber throats. Will be a "true" .38 as well which should prove interesting, will get rid of the hollow base and do a 215-220gr harder lead .386" bullet, should penetrate like all heck. Will do the .41 Colt Part II article on it.
Keep on .41'ing. To the thread I have a custom barrel being bored to .385 right now, with a .38-55 cutter run 3 thou deeper per groove, to finally modernize the .41. Rechambering a .357 cylinder with a custom reamer that will have actual chamber throats. Will be a "true" .38 as well which should prove interesting, will get rid of the hollow base and do a 215-220gr harder lead .386" bullet, should penetrate like all heck. Will do the .41 Colt Part II article on it.
Sorry if you thought it was all serious. Probably you're overstressed from the responsibilities that go with being great. It can't be be easy.
Seriously though - what pistol are you building that modernised .41 on?
Don't be quite so quick to dump the hollow base just yet. The hollow base effectively increases case capacity and if you are looking to get every ounce of useful velocity within pressure limits then the HB is a useful tool, even in a non-expanding hard cast version. This especially true in small to medium size cases like the 41 colt or 455 webley. I actually harbour suspicions that the brits designed the webley HB bullet purely for that reason, since it doesn't seem to be necessary for anything else.
Seriously though - what pistol are you building that modernised .41 on?
Don't be quite so quick to dump the hollow base just yet. The hollow base effectively increases case capacity and if you are looking to get every ounce of useful velocity within pressure limits then the HB is a useful tool, even in a non-expanding hard cast version. This especially true in small to medium size cases like the 41 colt or 455 webley. I actually harbour suspicions that the brits designed the webley HB bullet purely for that reason, since it doesn't seem to be necessary for anything else.
Ive got a WG target that shoots 22 Hornet and a S&W DA long cylinder model with a 5 inch barrel that shoots 22 K hornet i am gona do some tests in the fall on accuracy and penatration.
Kinda neat haveing a fast varmint round in a Antique handgun. both of theses guns were pro set up by gunsmiths im in the process of getting 22 K hornet dies and what i need is some good 22 caliber lead bullets in the hornets weight.
I bet the 8 inch WG target model drives tight groups out to 50 yds.
I will be shooting reloads in both guns.
The WG target has a spare barrel and cylinder that shoots 455 Webley so its a duel caliber gun.
Fun stuff
I like long range handgun shooting.
Kinda neat haveing a fast varmint round in a Antique handgun. both of theses guns were pro set up by gunsmiths im in the process of getting 22 K hornet dies and what i need is some good 22 caliber lead bullets in the hornets weight.
I bet the 8 inch WG target model drives tight groups out to 50 yds.
I will be shooting reloads in both guns.
The WG target has a spare barrel and cylinder that shoots 455 Webley so its a duel caliber gun.
Fun stuff
I like long range handgun shooting.
- Location
- Behind a large rock
Ive got a WG target that shoots 22 Hornet and a S&W DA long cylinder model with a 5 inch barrel that shoots 22 K hornet i am gona do some tests in the fall on accuracy and penatration.
Kinda neat haveing a fast varmint round in a Antique handgun. both of theses guns were pro set up by gunsmiths im in the process of getting 22 K hornet dies and what i need is some good 22 caliber lead bullets in the hornets weight.
I bet the 8 inch WG target model drives tight groups out to 50 yds.
I will be shooting reloads in both guns.
The WG target has a spare barrel and cylinder that shoots 455 Webley so its a duel caliber gun.
Fun stuff
I like long range handgun shooting.
This is interesting. I thought bottle necked cartridges don't work well in revolvers...
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sounds pretty slick, look forward to hearing how she does. I like a small bore as well, a lot of fun around the acreage. And with regards to long handgunning, surprising how many bits you can make way out there. The longest handgunning I've ever done was with a legal antique, my C96 at 500 yards. Yep, 500 no typo. We have a 1,000 yard range on an abandoned airstrip at work, complete with dusty soil so you can walk the hits in. Within one mag of ten rounds we hit a standard sillouette sized target. I wouldn't stand out there. Startling how well calibrated those old sights are, the 500 metre mark was pretty damn close with PVRI, enough to keep heads down, and I'm sure that was the only design purpose. I've often wondered how .30 Mauser would do in a custom SAA. Trouble would be if there was any case slip and breech face pressure, a second gen cylinder will handle it, just an old frame not so sure.
Thanks guys, that was...interesting, LOL
Edit; BTW Jethunter you never did post the load that you used in the 41LC. You & Ardent got so busy peeing on the others shoes that you forgot.
And don't get offended neither; we all do it, lol. It's like a virtual version of the oldtimers coffeeshop arguments.
All in good fun
Edit; BTW Jethunter you never did post the load that you used in the 41LC. You & Ardent got so busy peeing on the others shoes that you forgot.
And don't get offended neither; we all do it, lol. It's like a virtual version of the oldtimers coffeeshop arguments.
All in good fun
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The 22 K hornet is a better cartridge than the 22 Hornet in a revolver, the trick is no head space when the case is at 12 oclock position. there should be very little room for it to move back when fired.
the WG target works great as its a big ass revolver.
The 22 K hornets are a more strait sided case (there just a fireformed 22 hornet case)
Im gona post pics of the guns and the targets and stuff in the fall right now im to busy boating and fishing.
Im waiting on my 22 K hornet dies to.
I hear you. Occasionally I partake of that little joy, and....occasionally I get my a** handed to me too, lol. Can't take it too personal, though,
I'm killing time right now, waiting on the rig to run in a new drill bit.
Pays the same, marching or fighting.
That was entertaining though gentlemen
I'm killing time right now, waiting on the rig to run in a new drill bit.
Pays the same, marching or fighting.
That was entertaining though gentlemen
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The original chambers are sleeved with soldered in chunks of liner or barrel, and then chambered I presume? I'd love to see the cylinder, always curious how it would turn out. I've often thought about this for a .22 CCM, it's essentially a centerfire .22 Magnum, had a Cooper M38 in the chambering and fell in love with it.
I think thats about how they do it the WG looks factory altered its such a good job its hard to get the cartridge extrator to work on break open action guns theses ones eject perfect.
The chambers are now stronger than when original because the plugs are better steel and of course thick walled with the small hornet case.
I have and antique SAA colt with a 7 .5 inch barrel in 22 magnum it drives tacks at 25 and 50 yds.
its a heavy gun with all that extra steel the barrel is a christy type so not lined the cyclinder is not lined either.
Its a keeper tho im not selling it.
I really like shooting it as the ammos only $12 a box of 50 rds.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
.22 Mag fan myself, surprisingly useful cartridge too. I have a purpose built .224" SAA barrel as well, 5 1/2", haven't decided what to do with it yet the .22 CCM idea still burns in my mind. Got a couple rough second gens bought for parts that are good candidates for the .385 Colt and .22 CCM experiments.
It really is a shame that some dolt decided that the 32-20 was prohib in a pistol
I've always thought one would be cool. I go out shooting gophers with my Husky single 32-20 with Speer personal defence 60gr hollowpoints and am utterly amazed every time at the havoc they wreak upon the vermin.
They quite literally explode, it's somewhat macabre.
With no noise or recoil. It simply must be seen to be believed.
I've always thought one would be cool. I go out shooting gophers with my Husky single 32-20 with Speer personal defence 60gr hollowpoints and am utterly amazed every time at the havoc they wreak upon the vermin.
They quite literally explode, it's somewhat macabre.
With no noise or recoil. It simply must be seen to be believed.
