234 Wildcat Family....ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY

Douglas, I don't think bonded bullets will be anymore survivable from fast twist/high velocity. Bonding actually softens the jacket from the heating.
The theory is the lead is molten at the time of failure, donno if I believe that or not, but makes sense once you've witnessed of few blue clouds.
 
marshman said:
Play with this. You have to pay close attention to bullet length and atmospheric conditions. As far as stability is concerned you wont go wrong with the 8 twist.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php

Is "anyone" going to step up and order a reamer for their wish list? Or just hope Douglas will throat and neck for everyone's desires? Because one neck size will not do all. Having said that,
I can make up some of the rounds talked about ( when I have time) so WHOEVER can send it to their favorite reamer guy and get it done!
Click to expand...


Never fear Marshal I ordered and received two different neck thickness and two different throat lengths in each thickness..............trying to keep neck turning to a minimum................
 
marshman said:
Play with this. You have to pay close attention to bullet length and atmospheric conditions. As far as stability is concerned you wont go wrong with the 8 twist.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php
Click to expand...

Question #1, projected velocities for the .230 HYRAX & the 234 Moose?
Question #2, why so few 1 - 8 " twists available or in existence??:confused::confused: Got to be some reason and still 'curious'.
 
marshman said:
Douglas, I don't think bonded bullets will be anymore survivable from fast twist/high velocity. Bonding actually softens the jacket from the heating.
The theory is the lead is molten at the time of failure, donno if I believe that or not, but makes sense once you've witnessed of few blue clouds.
Click to expand...

Heard the theory Marshal..........but still 34-3500 is a long ways from explosive, bullet misting velocities and twist..........it's only 255,000 Rpm..........there are several cartridges which exceed this, like a 1-10 twist Swift, 1-9 twist 6mm-284 and 1-7 twist 223 and they don't mist bullets.........I don't think softening the jacket adversely affects it in this case, Marshal, I think that jacket thickness and fracture resistance (softer being better and more cohesive than harder and more brittle) is more a factor. The lands make a much greater impression on a .020 jacket than they do on say a .030 jacket, add to that the work hardening of forming the SMK and I can see why they "mist" at 30 meters at 300,000 rpm
 
Johnn, your looking in all the wrong places. As far as 22 cal, the go to twist for modern "long" bullets is actually 7. for the .243 it's 8, for the 6.5 its 8, fot the 7mm its 8.5 or 9.
Times are a changing.

23-06 with a 105gn 3200fps is my guess
 
Marshal, my estimates were considering a 26-28" barrel, which is what I will be testing initially.

There are guys quoting 3450 fps with 90 gn bullets in the 22-06 with 1-8 twist, so 34-3500 fps should be doable with a 100-105 gn 23 bullet with a 1-8 twist. I also exceeded 3700 fps in the 22-284 with 80 gn bullets with 1-8 twist.................
 
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Its actually 306,000 rpm with an 8t at 3400;). I've witness lots of 90gr misting from a 7t .223, TONS from 8t 6.5-284s. I'd happy for you to prove me wrong:wave:

c-fbmi said:
Heard the theory Marshal..........but still 34-3500 is a long ways from explosive, bullet misting velocities and twist..........it's only 255,000 Rpm..........there are several cartridges which exceed this, like a 1-10 twist Swift, 1-9 twist 6mm-284 and 1-7 twist 223 and they don't mist bullets.........I don't think softening the jacket adversely affects it in this case, Marshal, I think that jacket thickness and fracture resistance (softer being better and more cohesive than harder and more brittle) is more a factor. The lands make a much greater impression on a .020 jacket than they do on say a .030 jacket, add to that the work hardening of forming the SMK and I can see why they "mist" at 30 meters at 300,000 rpm
Click to expand...
 
marshman said:
Johnn, your looking in all the wrong places. As far as 22 cal, the go to twist for modern "long" bullets is actually 7. for the .243 it's 8, for the 6.5 its 8, fot the 7mm its 8.5 or 9.
Times are a changing.

23-06 with a 105gn 3200fps is my guess
Click to expand...

Just asking. When I first started out into reloading and a little more in the way of semi-serious shooting, I had a decent mentor that could answer a great many of my questions. That, coupled with reloading manuals and the likes of the Handloader were my mainstay for learning and understanding. In other instances, to find answers, I had to go further afield and make inquiries of knowledgeable people in the field. That was my purpose in this instance, to have my questions answered, for clarification and to learn.
 
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marshman said:
Its actually 306,000 rpm with an 8t at 3400;). I've witness lots of 90gr misting from a 7t .223, TONS from 8t 6.5-284s. I'd happy for you to prove me wrong:wave:
Click to expand...


OOPS......rechecked my numbers and you are entirely correct.....306,000........Each bullet will have it's own centrifugal threshold, so I guess there are no hard and fast rules as to maximum RPM. The diameter, circumference and length of the bullet along with jacket thickness and composition, AND land depth and configuration will also all factor in. Marshal, do you know of any research as to the bullet temps at the muzzle relative to velocity? It would be interesting to know............
 
Johnn, I think what you're not grasping is that a 100-105 gn 23 cal bullet would equate to roughly a 90 gn spitzer 22 cal bullet, a 120 gn spitzer 6mm bullet and about a 260 gn spitzer 30 cal bullet, in other words a very heavy and long bullet for caliber. This requires a sharper twist per caliber to stabilize it. This need is diminished SOMEWHAT as velocity increases as the stability comes from a specific RPM per bullet to maintain stability over it's flight from muzzle to returning subsonic. It's always better to have a few more RPM than needed than it is to have not enough RPM to do the job for the full flight of the bullet. Once a bullet drops below it's RPM stability threshold it will become unstable and it matters not if this happens at 100 mtrs or 400 mtrs it will become unstable..........so it is possible with a borderline stable bullet to shoot 1/2" groups at 100 mtrs and not be able to keep bullets on a sheet of plywood at 500 mtrs.
 
That would be very cool to know, no sorry I do not.

c-fbmi said:
OOPS......rechecked my numbers and you are entirely correct.....306,000........Each bullet will have it's own centrifugal threshold, so I guess there are no hard and fast rules as to maximum RPM. The diameter, circumference and length of the bullet along with jacket thickness and composition, AND land depth and configuration will also all factor in. Marshal, do you know of any research as to the bullet temps at the muzzle relative to velocity? It would be interesting to know............
Click to expand...
 
marshman said:
Play with this. You have to pay close attention to bullet length and atmospheric conditions. As far as stability is concerned you wont go wrong with the 8 twist.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php

Is "anyone" going to step up and order a reamer for their wish list? Or just hope Douglas will throat and neck for everyone's desires? Because one neck size will not do all. Having said that,
I can make up some of the rounds talked about ( when I have time) so WHOEVER can send it to their favorite reamer guy and get it done!
Click to expand...

Please pardon my limited understanding of all of the process involved. BMI or Marshman (or anyone for that matter) do I need to carry my own weight here and pony up some $$$ for a reamer, or anything else for that matter?

Please just let me know and I will not hesitate. PM or on here is fine. I am very interested in this project and certainly wish to contribute where necessary.
Regards,
Dave​
 
Dave its not my show, Im just trying to help get it of the ground with honest support and enthusiasm, and every now and then some fun digs.

d4dave1 said:


Please pardon my limited understanding of all of the process involved. BMI or Marshman (or anyone for that matter) do I need to carry my own weight here and pony up some $$$ for a reamer, or anything else for that matter?

Please just let me know and I will not hesitate. PM or on here is fine. I am very interested in this project and certainly wish to contribute where necessary.
Regards,
Dave​
Click to expand...
 
F**cking pushy lot, ain't ya..........those who do this sort of thing will understand, but I just haven't been in the right frame of mind quite yet, and I have a few pressing other things that need to happen........gotta keep the little woman happy..........y'all know, "happy wife.....happy life"..........it's been pushing 40 deg every day since my return and I just can't force myself to plant my a$$ in front of the lathe for a day or two just yet.............but it's getting close.
 
I know the feeling....like when shmoes show up to the shop while you're workin' away on a project, and all they
want to do is ask tech questions on how to build stuff. I'm like...Sorry, this is a workin' shop, not Dear Abby!
 
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