Tipping Bullets

legi0n

legi0n

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This is the technique used to improve the bullet tip as opposed to giving a tip ... in bullets :rolleyes:
Now I've read about this and the dies for that are quite expensive. Some say they do wonders, some say they're just a feel good thing.
But I received 1000 Winchester soft points and they're made with soft lead which got battered during shipping so I had to do something about it.
So I made a contraption to improve the point of the bullets. For comparison purposes I used previously loaded cartridges in 30-06 with Hornady 180 Interlock (Hornady's bullets are made with harder lead than Winchester)

here's a tip comparison (after and before tipping)
Pointed1.jpg

Pointed2.jpg


and some shooting analysis (shot from rests unless specified)

Untipped bullets
RegularBulletsTest.jpg


Tipped Bullets
PointedBulletsTest.jpg


From where I stand the group size decreased a bit.
But that may very well be from the velocity decrease given the warmer ambient temperature (yes, my numbers show H4350 in 30-06 at 56gr under 180gr bullet lose velocity with the ambient temp increase)
This may explain the lower point of impact.

What do you think?
 
I for myself, starting to be concerned about bullets meplats.
I shoot Sierras 300 SMK . They are far from perfect.
My COAL has a delta of .05 thousands and i'm conservative.

It bothers me so that I started to mesure rounds from base to ogive. I see a little less variation.

300 SMK's meplats can have a 45 degres angle from square. That imperfection is minimize by bullet spin (drift).

Don't kwo what to do ?

Mush
 
gewehr76 said:
Doesn't matter how tip looks like, with these bullets. As loong as they are crimped at cannelure, you'll get same pressure no matter wat your COL is.
Click to expand...

whoa... wait a minute: external ballistics are a function of velocity, spin, mass distribution and shape.
two bullets, one perfect in shape and one "out of center" will yield different accuracy.
Or so the theory goes...
 
How much difference does a battered point make when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round is fired after being fed through the magazine while hunting?
Lead is soft and redesigning the tip of a battered round with a knife is a case of mind over matter . . . if you don't mind it don't matter.
 
legi0n said:
whoa... wait a minute: external ballistics are a function of velocity, spin, mass distribution and shape.
two bullets, one perfect in shape and one "out of center" will yield different accuracy.
Or so the theory goes...
Click to expand...

I have said on here so often, there are oodles of unproven theories that go the rounds on the CGN, with people repeating them as truth.
It has been proven many times, the point won't effect accuracy.
 
H4831 said:
I have said on here so often, there are oodles of unproven theories that go the rounds on the CGN, with people repeating them as truth.
It has been proven many times, the point won't effect accuracy.
Click to expand...

The shape itself won't affect accuracy unless that shape brings the point off-center.
 
horseman2 said:
How much difference does a battered point make when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round is fired after being fed through the magazine while hunting?
Lead is soft and redesigning the tip of a battered round with a knife is a case of mind over matter . . . if you don't mind it don't matter.
Click to expand...

Hornady used hard lead on their bullets.
 
it seems I'm not the only one to have experienced loss of accuracy with deformed lead tips

Never Trust a Bashed Lead Tip
badtips.jpg

During the taping of this season’s Gun Nuts (which promises to be bigger than Ben Hur) the question came up whether a deformed lead tip can cause a bullet to fly awry. Several times in the past, when shooting a group, I had shot a slug with a deformed tip and seen no indication of this at all. But before I went on camera I decided to check.
The first thing I found was that there are not a hell of a lot of pointed exposed-lead tips around these days. Just about everything on my shelf was all copper, or polymer-tipped, or had a flat tip (meplat) with not enough lead showing to deform. Finally, I found a box of .25/06 ammo handloaded with 120-grain Nosler Partitions.
At the range, I picked out 10 cartridges for two five-shot groups, five shots being a more reliable indicator of what is going on than three. The first group measured .657, which is about right for this rifle. Then I set about deforming the other five tips, and discovered that the damned things are hard. Rapping them on wood dented the wood and had little effect on the lead. I had to smack them against a steel plate anchoring the beams to the range roof. (Also, do not try this at home. I am a highly trained professional and you, as Chevy Chase used to say, are not.)
With the five tips bashed all to hell I then shot a second group and got an ugly surprise: the spread measured 2.131 inches, and three of the five shots strayed off to the right. See the photo.
The moral of this story is, if you’re using lead-tip bullets, be careful with them, and if you do beat one out of shape, use it for fouling the barrel, or something like that. Don’t shoot it when the shot counts; it will probably not go where it should.
Click to expand...
 
I have shot literally thousands of bullets downrange in my lifetime.

Quite often, these have been bullets with damaged or distorted tips [softpoints]

Not ever, have I seen any evidence that this affects downrange accuracy one iota.

And contemplate this: You have 1 round in the chamber, and 3 rounds in a box magazine, all with your fancy reworked tips.
You are shooting a 300 Magnum of some ilk, or maybe a 338 Win mag [or even a 378 Weatherby mag]

How long will those tips retain their perfect profile once you pull the trigger?
Guarantee, they will look entirely different after the first shot as they slam into the front of the magazine and flatten out.

As far as I am concerned, it is a complete waste of time fancying up those tips. As H4831 stated, the base is what really counts in accuracy, period.
Methinks some people just have too much time on their hands. :)

Regards, Dave.
 
legi0n said:
it seems I'm not the only one to have experienced loss of accuracy with deformed lead tips

Never Trust a Bashed Lead Tip
Click to expand...

On the basis of two groups only, this character is adopting a conclusion that flies in the face of reason. I would need to see 20 groups of each with one load and bullet to establish a real basis for coming to this conclusion.

I am going to do a private test with my very accurate 308 Norma Mag and the 200 Partition to see what happens.

Actually, I already did this test with my 30-06, and the difference was negligible.

I doubt that there will be any measurable difference. But if there is, I will report back and eat humble pie. Regards, Dave.
 
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Then I set about deforming the other five tips, and discovered that the damned things are hard. Rapping them on wood dented the wood and had little effect on the lead. I had to smack them against a steel plate anchoring the beams to the range roof.
Click to expand...

So after hitting the loaded rounds that hard against a steel plate, what are the chances that the bullets are still properly aligned in the case? What do you suppose the run out would be just behind the deformed tip? Perhaps it wasn't the deformed tips at all that effected the accuracy?
 
stubblejumper said:
So after hitting the loaded rounds that hard against a steel plate, what are the chances that the bullets are still properly aligned in the case? What do you suppose the run out would be just behind the deformed tip? Perhaps it wasn't the deformed tips at all that effected the accuracy?
Click to expand...

Yes pretty much what I was thinking ,but just did not want to get into it.
 
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