Getting into percision shooting

Madmardigan

Madmardigan

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I've really been wanting to get into long range percision shooting. I've done pleanty of research, and more than once people have recommended that I should look at what I already have.
I don't have a bunch of money to go out and buy a high end rifle and scope at the same time, so that got me thinking.
I have a Ruger Scout Rifle, with a 2.5x power scope on it. The best I've shot with it were 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards. I'm assuming this is fairly poor for a percision rifle. But I'm also wondering if I buy a scope with more magnification, and buy better ammo, will I be able to get better groups. And would it be possible to be accurate with it beyond 600 yards? Ultimately, I'd like to be able to shoot out to 1000 yards. Do you think that would be possible to do with a Ruger Scout? Would having it glass bedded make much of a differnce, and is there anything else that I could do to the rifle to make it more accurate?
I'm sure eventually I'll get a rifle more suited to long range shooting. It just seems easier on the wallet this way. At least with a scope I can always put it on another rifle down the road.
Anyway, dose this seem like a good way to get started? Or is it a wast of money to try to accurize a Ruger Scout?
 
IMHO I think your scout is lacking for doing 1000 yards shooting. It has a thinner barrel than normal and is probably shorter than it should be for the distance. Plenty of guys shoot 308 but they usually have heavy to mid weight barrels. I think you should try going to your provincial rifle association and go to an intro day. See what you are getting into. Very addictive and fun. You can get into the game with a cheaper rifle if you keep your eyes open.use your rifle for a vintage match where you can use hunting and sporter rifles. In terms of glass really research what works in your budget. For instance I have a bushnell 5-15 with target turrets but will be upgrading to a sightron as that is what my budget allows.
 
Sherlock Gnomes said:
IMHO I think your scout is lacking for doing 1000 yards shooting. It has a thinner barrel than normal and is probably shorter than it should be for the distance. Plenty of guys shoot 308 but they usually have heavy to mid weight barrels. I think you should try going to your provincial rifle association and go to an intro day. See what you are getting into. Very addictive and fun. You can get into the game with a cheaper rifle if you keep your eyes open.
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I kind of figured that was a pipe dream. But I still have a long way to go. I haven't shot past 300 yards yet. But if I can get at least out to 600 that'll keep me going till I can buy a better rifle.
I can see it being very addictive. Lots of knowledge to be had. And I love learning new skill sets.
 
I haven't shot over 200 yards for a long time. I decided to purchase good used accurate 6BR rifle from EE. Experiment with it and get the feeling with it.
Decided to enter the Precision Shooting range.

My scope is Sightron III 10-50x60 LRIRMOA and it is an amazing scope for Precision range and a reasonable price. Couldn't believe it shot well beyond 400 yards, then again 500 yards then over 700 yards. I've shot 6BR at 1,000 yards recently and it was amazing feeling that the tiny cartridge did well reaching to 1,000 yards. (not friendly with high winds). I looked at the riflescope at 1,000 yards target. I wasn't sure if this cartridge can hit that far. Yup, it does if you have slippery high B.C. bullet, like Berger Hybrid Match.
 
No Fear in Accuracy said:
I haven't shot over 200 yards for a long time. I decided to purchase good used accurate 6BR rifle from EE. Experiment with it and get the feeling with it.
Decided to enter the Precision Shooting range.

My scope is Sightron III 10-50x60 LRIRMOA and it is an amazing scope for Precision range and a reasonable price. Couldn't believe it shot well beyond 400 yards, then again 500 yards then over 700 yards. I've shot 6BR at 1,000 yards recently and it was amazing feeling that the tiny cartridge did well reaching to 1,000 yards. (not friendly with high winds). I looked at the riflescope at 1,000 yards target. I wasn't sure if this cartridge can hit that far. Yup, it does if you have slippery high B.C. bullet, like Berger Hybrid Match.
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This is where I am aiming for also. I was using 223 but switched to 243 for better ballistics. My savage shoots the 95's well but I will need to rebarrel and get into 105 grains to be more accurate.
 
I would suggest to not spend anymore on your rifle to trying turn it into a precision rifle. It is good rifle for what it is. Even if you could improve the accuracy you can not improve the ballistics. The longer barrel will have a higher velocity than a shorter one. This means a shorter time in flight allowing the wind less time to push your bullets on or off target. I would run what you brung, maybe remove the scope entirely and shoot it in F class target rifle division. Have fun and you might see what other folks are using. You may luck out and the club will loan you a target rifle until you are setup.
 
So heres the deal from what I see;

Can you make the scout rifle accurate, yes. But it will cost ya a bunch of money and it will never be a long range rig.

Now with hand loads, a good scope and some practice you can certainly achieve better groups than 11/4" at 100. With a scope (and a good base to give ya more adjustment) you can certainly get to 1000yrd with a 308. Easily in fact. And with your rifle you can probably (if ya do your part) get a hit with it. However consistent hits are gonna be limited as JBD said by your ability to have the bullet traveling fast enough to maintain stability at that range. For that, a longer barrel is far more desirable.

In short, can it be done? Yes. Is it worth spending the money to make the scout rifle do it? No. Save up, get a rem or savage for 6-800 bucks plus a GOOD scope (cannot stress enough the importance of good optics, they make the long shooting game happen) and definitely start reloading. Good ammo and optics are the most critical factor in long range shooting (as long as yer not a terrible shooter to start :p).

In the last two years I got into precision shooting. Bought a rem700 in 308 with a heavy barrel, got a Vortex PST 6-24xMOA on it an it sits in a bedded hs precision stock. That plus my 178gr amax hand loads and 45.7gr of target puts me on the 950yrd gong consistently. My setup is not expensive by any means, probably sitting at 2k all in for the gun optics and gunsmithing i had done, I know guys who have spent A LOT more and do far better and guys who've spent more and do worse.
 
Your gun will work just fine to 600 yards. At 600 your most likely looking at 6-7 feet of drop. If you want to try with your current scope just put a second target for an aiming point above the target you want to hit. I suggest steel for a target. It’s a lot of fun to hear the delay of the DING! when you make a hit.

Then when you’re ready to make a purchase buy the nicest scope you can afford. The Sightron SIII models are great. I would suggest a 6-24 power. In my opinion there aren’t many scopes worth buying under the $750 mark. They might just turn out to be a waste of money.

You do not need fancy equipment to make long shots. At first your hit percentage will be low and first shot hits might not happen but as time passes and you get more experience you will hit more often.

It’s almost better to learn as much as you can with out spending money. That way when you are ready to buy stuff you will have a better idea of what you want/need.

Your rifle most likely won’t need to be glass bedded, unless there is a major problem with the factory bedding. Just be sure to check your action screws. Some times they aren’t tight from the factory.

Just take baby steps and have a good time.
 
Wow! Thanks for all the tips guys.
I'd love to take part in some competitions or classes, but it's just not possible. I work weekends, my wife works evinings and have I young childern to watch while my wife works. It's pretty hard for me to join in on any functions because I never know when I'll have time for myself. So I'm pretty much stuck with learning how to do this on my own, aside from what I learn here of course.
I don't reload yet, that's another aspect of the hobby I'd like to learn and get set up for as well, but one thing at a time.
Sounds like what I need to do first is buy a quality optic. And I hear what you guys are saying, the last thing I want to do is waste a bunch of money on trying to make the scout rifle into something it's not.
Thanks again for all the advice guys. I'm going to get a scope good scope first, then possibly trade in my Scout for a 700.
 
Just a few more questions.

What would be the minimum ammount of magnification I should get? Seem you guys prefer them 6x24

And would you recommend buying used optics? Anything I should be aware of when buying used?
 
In terms of optics if you are using them for long range paper punching the 10-50 sightron would be a good choice. Lots of good reviews on here. I would not hesitate to buy an optic used but make sure it has a lifetime warranty in case it had issues.
 
I had a guy out not too long ago that had a browning A bolt sporter in .308 with a 3-9 vortex on it. It was his hunting rig and he had never shot it past 200y. Simply by changing to match ammo he was making good consistent hits at over 850m on my half man sized steel. In my reckoning the two most important things you will need is good match ammo and a spotter who can get you onto the target in short order. You will have a rough time getting there without someone watching for you. The scout rifle should make it out there no problem but just don't expect any 3 inch groups. ;)
 
With a good brake, you can see your own swirl and splash if you've got enough magnification. Just measure the miss with the reticle and adjust the turrets directly (why you want reticle and turrets to be in the same unit). That's how its done in UKD matches where you don't have a spotter.
 
This is only an estimation.

This is what I do: (magnification)

100 yards: group shots 15x-50x
400 - 500 yards: 18x-24x
700 yards: 28x-40x
1000 yards: 35x-42x
 
Gunslingr said:
plus a GOOD scope (cannot stress enough the importance of good optics, they make the long shooting game happen) and definitely start reloading. Good ammo and optics are the most critical factor in long range shooting (as long as yer not a terrible shooter to start :p).
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Totally agreed. There are enough envirnmental and shooter related factors to deal with, without wondering if the last adjustment you put into your scope actually adjusted to what you clicked into it.

The ability to tune your load to the rifle as various things change about the gun and the weather is also a big benefit.

I did fairly close to what gunslingr did, with the exception that I got a .338LM Remington instead of .308, and a sightron instead of a Vortex. (The sightron has since been upgraded to NF, nothing wrong with the sightron, but the NF is just an all around awesome scope.)

With a bit of fine tuning of the loads, some fairly basic math after using a chronograph on my desired loads, and a few tweaks such as bedding the rifle, I have now achieved many hits at a mile, and have intentions of going much further once I get a larger base than 20MOA on my rifle.


.308 at a kilometer is very possible, but just don't expect consistent hits if there is any wind out there. The slightest amount not corrected for will push your .308 bullet several feet off target at that range.
 
Well, that's encouraging. For now I'll use my Scout and do some ammo testing to see what shoots best from it. The optic is goona be the more expensive/important piece of equipment that I'll need, so I'll get that out of the way first. I'll likely get a 700 eventually and upgrade it as I go.
I have about a bazillion questions, this is a part of shooting that I've never really given any attention, it seems to be a lot more involved than any other type of shooting I've done. Lots of math, I don't know F-all about scopes, other than I think the BDC redicals look cool. And I have no idea how mil dot scopes work.
Anyway, I have been looking into optics in the $800+ range. I came across the Vortex PST 6x24 scopes, and I was thinking this may be a good option. But then I looked at the Nightforce scopes and seen that their bench rest line is just a few hundred more. Any input on either of these scopes?
Another thing I'm concerned about is, if I buy a scope with a BDC, will it only be good for the caliber it's calibrated to? I'm still not decided on what caliber I'm going to get the 700 in, so I'm not sure if this is something to consider as well. As I understand scopes with a BDC are calibrated to the rifle specifically, barrel lengeth, the bullet used, ect. Would a mil dot scope be better for swaping between rifles?
Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to spend a bunch of money without an understand of what it is I'm buying.
 
Forget scopes with BDC reticules. Not only won't they work with other calibers than they are calibrated to, they often won't work correctly unless your load is exactly perfect to match the BDC reticule. This means that you will have to tailor a load to the BDC reticule rather than what your rifle shoots accurately.

Mil dots work, but add a lot of unneeded math into the equation.

I strongly suggest you get a scope that has an MOA reticule, as the adjustments you see on the reticule directly correspond to the adjustments on your turrets. No guesswork needed.
 
That's what I figured. Would it be possible to find out what distances each line on the BDC will be with whatever load your using? But probably not worth the effort?
It's too bad, almost seemed too good to be true. Sight in your rifle at one distance and use the holdovers for reaching out. I'm sure when it works its awesome, but I don't reload, and I don't see myself getting into it in the near future. Although I do want to one day. Too many other things on the go right now.
Thanks for the advice. I'll look into the MOA redicals.
Anybody have comments on the NF bench rest line of scopes?
 
You can use the BDC for rough holdover, but I have found them to be pretty far off, especially the further out you reach.

Never played with the benchrest line of scopes, but their NXS and ATACR scopes are absolutely top notch. AFAIK the benchrest scopes have generally finer reticules, and they have covered turrets. I personally dislike covered turrets for anything but hunting, as when you are shooting on the range you frequently need to adjust, so I think that gives the other scopes a leg over the competition, but it really depends on what you are looking for in a scope.
 
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