45-70 loads for deer.

ok, what would you guys recommend?

a solid cast bullet like a 405gr or a 350gr like the ones half way down this page. http://www.rustywood.ca/reload-rifle.html

a jacketed one like the Hornady 350gr interlock http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-350-gr-FP/

or something else?

im also thinking about casting my own bullets... ive been wanting to start this but never had a caliber that would benefit me to start... I think the 45-70 is a good caliber to start with, right? would you recommend me to use a hand cast bullet for hunting? if so, hollow point or solid?
 
BigUglyMan said:
My load consists of Lyman 457193 which drop from the mould weighing 418gr (BC .307) with 3031. Chony says 1950 FPS. Should give a trajectory of +0.8" (50m) 0 (100m), -4.2" (150m), -11.7" (200m) according to Hornady's nifty calculator. I've not shot it at those distances and, with those numbers, I'm not sure that I care to. Hold behind the shoulder at a sensible range and the deer will fall over dead.
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Ouch!!!
My 405gr loads at 1850-1900fps are pretty hard on the shoulder. They would probably be a little easier to take if I wasn't shooting off a table but I need to see them group before I load up a bunch for hunting.
I prepped my regular brass this afternoon and also prepped some Hornady brass (shorter) to try the 325 FTX bullets again. Sure hope I can get something to work soon. I really want to take this one out for deer this fall but might end up using the 308 if I can't get a consistent load built for this soon.
 
405 gr Remington soft point at 1700 fps mv will exit a deer from any angle
Hard cast won't expand but makes a hole big enough to let in plenty of light

I really liked the Hornady 350 flat nose at 1900 fps

I've switched to laser cast silver Alloy 405 gr from Oregon trail at 1600 fps. It went thru 56" of a railroad tie
I've heard the Speer 300 gr hp is devastating on deer but never tried it myself
 
I shot a small buck last year with the rem 405 cor-lokts. It pretty well dropped within 10 yards. Very clean whole through it and very little meat damage.

This year, I'm trying to load up some Crater Lites at 420 gr.
 
brybenn said:
405 gr Remington soft point at 1700 fps mv will exit a deer from any angle
Hard cast won't expand but makes a hole big enough to let in plenty of light

I really liked the Hornady 350 flat nose at 1900 fps

I've switched to laser cast silver Alloy 405 gr from Oregon trail at 1600 fps. It went thru 56" of a railroad tie
I've heard the Speer 300 gr hp is devastating on deer but never tried it myself
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Where are you getting your laser cast bullets from?
 
triple tap said:
thanks for the input guys, I guess I may be over thinking this whole thing a bit to much... I may just go and load up some regular good old fashion jacketed lead bullets and call it a day. but ill do a bit more research before I call it good enough...
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Do this. At 45/70 velocities, you won't have any trouble with a standard cup-and-core bullet like the Hornady, Sierra, or others. It will kill deer very nicely, and you shouldn't see a lot of bloodshot meat either.
 
I use the 325gr FTX from hornady in my muzzle loader at about 2350 fps. Shoots 3 touching at 100 yards. If I was reloading for a 45/70 it's most certainly the bullet I would use.
 
if I do use a standard cast lead 405gr bullet, will I have a bunch of tiny lead fragments in the meat, or should it be fine... this is my first deer hunt so im quite a noob at this lol... im going with my uncle who knows what hes doing, but he shoots a 30-06 with some sort of mono metal bullets (forget what ones...) so he dosnt have this problem...

if I cast my own bullets, or go and get some store bought bullets, should I go with a hollow point or a solid? what im worried about is that the hollow point will shred apart and leave more lead in the meat to pick out... but from what I have read, the hollow points will have better energy transfer because they open up to a greater surface area and slow down inside the animal faster, transferring more energy...
 
I would stay away from hollow points. They open up alright and will damage the meat. Remember, it's a 45/70 so you do t need any expansion.
 
cr5 said:
Without expanding the 45 cal makes a hole as big as a 30 cal expanding bullet.
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It's not the size of the "hole" that matters but rather the cavitation and damage to the surrounding tissues that happens during the energy transfer while the bullet is being deformed. Simply poking a .45 calibre hole through an animal will not the cause rapid blood loss needed to drop an animal within a reasonable time.

Some bullets such as the solid copper expanding types work to cause excessive bleeding by cutting the wound track open similar to the action of a broadhead on an arrow rather than the sheer blunt-force trauma of a standard lead bullet.

Unless you are going for central nervous system hit - spine or brain - animals die though blood loss. The more rapid the loss the quicker they pass out and drop.


For what it's worth my favorite 45-70 bullet for black bears and deer is the 330 Grain Gould hollow-point. It will expand reliably over a wide velocity range.
 
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for what it is worth I cast 500 grain lee gas check bullets for the bolt action 45/70, and shot one moose with it, it was dramatic.
 
'Boo said:
Please explain the logic of this statement.
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It's almost a half inch diameter (.458) vs .308 on a 30 caliber. My point is that you don't need much, if any, expansion to quickly take down a deer. From my understanding, the hard casts .458, at slow speed, barely expand and take down not only deer quickly, but most game in NA. That's a pretty big hole it leaves behind.
 

Meat buck hit midship as chasing a doe through the trees when shot 300 Hornady HP went 20 yards blew right through
 
'Boo said:
It's not the size of the "hole" that matters but rather the cavitation and damage to the surrounding tissues that happens during the energy transfer while the bullet is being deformed. Simply poking a .45 calibre hole through an animal will not the cause rapid blood loss needed to drop an animal within a reasonable time.

Some bullets such as the solid copper expanding types work to cause excessive bleeding by cutting the wound track open similar to the action of a broadhead on an arrow rather than the sheer blunt-force trauma of a standard lead bullet.

Unless you are going for central nervous system hit - spine or brain - animals die though blood loss. The more rapid the loss the quicker they pass out and drop.


For what it's worth my favorite 45-70 bullet for black bears and deer is the 330 Grain Gould hollow-point. It will expand reliably over a wide velocity range.
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Not sure if I agree with this. it's been my experience that the 458 bullet at 1100 to 1400 fps will kill as ,if not more effectively than a 3000 fps bullet of smaller caliber. I have considerable more experience taking game with the smaller (.25,.248,.308) than the .458 but the few that I've taken with it have proved to me that bullet expansion isn't compulsory (or better for that matter). Every kill with the 45-70 has died within 40 yrds and the blood trail in all instances have been as good as or better than the small fast bullets... in fact I've recovered more than a few bullets from the fast crowd that didn't exit at all...never has this happened with the 45-70, shots from 100 yrds to the longest of 245 (all on deer) resulted in complete pass thru's, didn't recover a single bullet but doubt if any expansion took place at 1100 to 1400 fps.

No doubt the hydraulic tissue damage you speak of is more from the speed demons but my experience is that most of that damage is in the first couple of inches of penetration, the wound channel diminishes rapidly through the animal, quite often not even providing an exit wound for a blood trail to follow.

Not trying to say that bullet expansion isn't a good thing, just don't agree that it is needed for the 45-70 to be effective.
 
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