Any one crimp hunting loads?

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canoetrpr

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I'm putting together my practise loads for an upcoming antelope hunt this year and wondered if anyone here crimps their hunting loads to add a bit of extra tension around the bullet.

I'm loading 280AI, 56.5 gr of IMR7828 SSC with Nosler brass and a Barnes TTSX 150g @0.060" from the lands. Brass has been full length sized and will be brand new. I plan to chamber EVERY round that I will take for the hunt.

I might be being paranoid but I've learned the hard way that I need to chamber all my rounds.

Unlike loads for the range which are practically babied, my hunting rounds will inevitably find their way into the jacket pocket and be bounced around so I want to be extra sure that they won't come apart and the bullet won't move at all.

Can I actually apply any sort of crimp to this bullet?
 
A follow on question. I find the Lee factory crimp dies intriguing. Bit odd that no one else makes them? Does not seem like they sell the factory crimp die separately for 280AI so I am considering just picking up a lee set just for the factory crimp die if I decide I ought to crimp my hunting loads.

Hmm. just had a thought. Shouldn't a 280 Rem factory crimp die work fine for 280AI? After all it isn't adding a crimp anywhere but the top of the neck right?
 
If you have the proper neck tension, I use around .002" with my hunting loads, crimping won't be at all necessary, and it won't gain you anything. Other than for use in tubular magazines, or in my handguns, I never crimp.
 
^^^

That , if I know my hunting loads are going to be bounced around and it worries me (not very often). Run a bit more neck tension or a little drop of clear nail polish around where the bullet meets case .


Either of those if the bullet sets back or moves out while in your jacked pocket ... Well you've got much bigger problems on your hands
 
If they come apart in your pocket they'll not hold together in your rifle either. However, a crimp is not required for any cartridge except those that recoil severely or are used in a lever action. Even those only need enough to hold the bullet in place.
Factory crimp dies are a marketing thing.
You may well be paranoid, but that doesn't mean Murphy isn't out to get you. The chamber is the best gauge you can get.
 
sunray said:
If they come apart in your pocket they'll not hold together in your rifle either. However, a crimp is not required for any cartridge except those that recoil severely or are used in a lever action. Even those only need enough to hold the bullet in place.
Factory crimp dies are a marketing thing.
You may well be paranoid, but that doesn't mean Murphy isn't out to get you. The chamber is the best gauge you can get.
Click to expand...

The action doesn't determine whether crimping is required, the magazine type is much more important. Not all lever actions use tubular magazines, but sone pump actions do use tubular magazines.
 
In my case this is a bolt action.

I back my die off one turn from where the ram hits the die; per the setup instructions from Redding for the die. Is there anyway to actually measure the neck tension? or are you folks suggesting that I just back off the die a bit less (say 1/2 or 3/4 of a turn instead of a full turn)?
 
canoetrpr said:
In my case this is a bolt action.

I back my die off one turn from where the ram hits the die; per the setup instructions from Redding for the die. Is there anyway to actually measure the neck tension? or are you folks suggesting that I just back off the die a bit less (say 1/2 or 3/4 of a turn instead of a full turn)?
Click to expand...

Your neck tension is determined primarily by the diameter of your Expander button in your sizing die.

However, the thickness of the brass at the neck will also affect the tension in some cases. [very thin necks]

Moving the seating die up or down will not change neck tension, but will introduce a "crimp" feature if set down far enough.

Regards, Dave.
 
canoetrpr said:
In my case this is a bolt action.

I back my die off one turn from where the ram hits the die; per the setup instructions from Redding for the die. Is there anyway to actually measure the neck tension? or are you folks suggesting that I just back off the die a bit less (say 1/2 or 3/4 of a turn instead of a full turn)?
Click to expand...

Measure the OD of the neck of a sized case, then seat a bullet and measure the neck OD again. The difference is the amount of neck tension you have. I use neck bushing dies, so I can easily adjust the neck tension for the cases that I am using
 
In short, yes, I crimp hunting loads. It ensures that the cartridge maintains over all length. There are so many theories about everything concerned with internal and external ballistics, that I prefer to do tests in my own rifles. I find no change in the point of aim or grouping for crimping them, and I have had bullets move before. In the theory department, the idea to support crimping is letting the pressure build a bit more to break the bullet loose, and give it a more consistent start in the lands. Of course this is done at the cost of putting a ring around the bullet, and causing some bullet deformation there. I have tried it in the 303 and the 7x57 and the 6.5x55, with full power loads, and found no difference. Maybe someone else's experience is different.
 
22to45 said:
. There are so many theories about everything concerned with internal and external ballistics, that I prefer to do tests in my own rifles. I find no change in the point of aim or grouping for crimping them, and I have had bullets move before. In the theory department, the idea to support crimping is letting the pressure build a bit more to break the bullet loose, and give it a more consistent start in the lands.

Glad to hear there are others out there who also doubt many of the theories that run rampant on these threads.

This one that you quoted, "In the theory department, the idea to support crimping is letting the pressure build a bit more to break the bullet loose, and give it a more consistent start in the lands," will not stand up to very basic scrutiny.
The British did a tremendous amount of testing on their 303 calibre Lee Enfield's during their development. One thing they tested and found the answer by absolute proof, using measurements, was when the powder was ignited, the rear, or base, of the bullet started to move before the front of the bullet moved!
Just think about this. The bullet starts with such violence that its base is moving before the front of the bullet starts to move.
Can anyone think that a couple of pounds more pressure on the neck, through crimping, will effect how the bullet starts?
Or, how the real truth of what happens when the powder ignites figures in to all those other theories we have so often heard on here, about how the bullet starts, then stops when it hits the lands while more pressure builds behind it etc, etc---------------- What a crock of BS.
One other fact about shooting is with a centre fire rifle with a bottle neck case, the bullet reaches the speed of sound by the time it has travelled about one and a half inches down the barrel! This is not a theory, this is fact. And this is going to happen whether it is crimped or not crimped, or whether the bullet is tight against the lands or has a half inch travel before it hits the lands.
Click to expand...
 
I just crimp because I like the idea of the bullets being locked in place. But yes, the theories do abound. I once put a bullet through a leg of a moose off hand at a measured 425 yards. I hit him about 2" below his body, and anchored him, as he was already hit by a buddy. It was pure luck. However, the headline would read that my choice of bullet, OAL, neck tension, choice of primer, primer pocket cleanliness, headspace, lot number of powder, choice of rifle, choice of scope or my religion or politics made the bullet from the 1893 mauser with the 2.5 bushnell banner pull off that shot. This rifle laid in a creek bottom as my dad flipped a canoe once, and when he returned two weeks later to get it, he had to open the bolt with a hammer, as everything was packed with sand.
 
Hunting and tubular magazines, yup, and full length size and cut each brass to the same
length too.
Don't need any things to sort of git their arse in the way.
Have nuff problems on me own to add to the equation.

Do what is comfortable for you is all I can add.
 
The only cartridge I crimp is the 348 Winchester for my M 71s because there is enough recoil with heavy loads to actually push the bullet back into the case ever so slightly.
I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die simply because it provides the same amount of crimp even if there is a tiny difference in case length, other dies would need adjustment to compensate for sight differences in case length...
 
Eagleye said:
Your neck tension is determined primarily by the diameter of your Expander button in your sizing die.

However, the thickness of the brass at the neck will also affect the tension in some cases. [very thin necks]

Moving the seating die up or down will not change neck tension, but will introduce a "crimp" feature if set down far enough.

Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...

^^^
 
I crimp everything I can. I find it gives more consistent ignition and I do own mostly .30 caliber and above hunting guns. If I can't find a way to put a good crimp on the round, I tend to only load one round at a time with a second usually in my finger webbing, or ready to go in the buttstock holder. I've seen quite a few "pushbacks" and seriously mushed soft points, that I have to keep an eye on my hunting ammo. I spend a lot of time hunting in REALLY cold temps, and I don't need any pressure spikes with ammo I test during the summer.
 
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