Our Vz58 Pistol RCMP Report

How many Conservative majorities will it take to get Firearms Act rewritten?
Not sure many of us could live long enough...
Average human lives are only about 75 years long.

At this pace, I reckon we need another hundred fifty years of Conservative majority...
 
lanis said:
How many Conservative majorities will it take to get Firearms Act rewritten?
Not sure many of us could live long enough...
Average human lives are only about 75 years long.

At this pace, I reckon we need another hundred fifty years of Conservative majority...
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Okay so have a liberal majority and never ever hold a gun again.


Good talk bro.
 
At least the RCMP firearms lab is consistent. Consistent in that they are consistently inconsistent.

Firearms act needs to go, wholesale.
 
HOW IS DAY DREAMING GOING?

Need to wake up and see the political reality. We are a small group. Only way we can get what we want is sustained incremental change. FA is not going anywhere anytime soon. I am 33 and i say it would take decades of handwork to reverse that.

Go to large Canadian cities. Its very hard to change public perception. It's a PR battle not logical. It's not about facts but perceived facts. We as a group need to smarten up and learn to get things done in the new environment. Look at all the lobies which cover liberal causes and how they manage their message. We need to sound rational and reasonable.

we as group don't sound reasonable when we demand full autos for everyone without licencing.

get rid of FA with what? how do you fill that void. we need to keep FA but make it irrelevant.

Boomer686 said:
Even better would be to get a Conservative majority again and have the firearms act re-written and put an end to all this BS.
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Porkchopsandwhich said:
Its no different then the micro XCR's, or the Lar-15 I would love to have the short CSA 7.5 or w/e as well as the 10 round mags that go with it.
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Yes, there is a difference. My post from the similar thread in the Red Rifle forum may help...

fenceline said:
Firstly, TVPP needs some serious kudos for taking up this endeavor. He bought the pistol, imported it, and then shipped it to the lab for evaluation, complete with pistol mag. He is losing the magazine, getting the pistol back, and it is currently going to be limited to 5 rounds like any other current vz58 styled offering. Lots of effort spent on no reward so far. He shouldn’t have to buy a round at the bar for himself for some time, just saying.

As for the ruling, I honestly didn’t see it turning out this way. And while I’m not thrilled by the result of their interpretation, I can see where they base their argument under the current rules.

Let me explain…

The firearm:
Czech Small Arms (CSA) currently produces rifles. They make no pistols what so ever. The vz58 and vz61 series coming out of Czech currently start their life as rifle receivers, are assembled and shipped to where ever they may go. Canada, the US, and other European nations.

Czech-Point in the US, is the US distributor for said firearms. At some point, after either arrival in the US, or before landing on US shores pre-inspection, the original rifles are modified to have their stocks removed, and a sling plate added to the rear of the receiver. This makes them pistols, both in the US, and when imported into Canada. However, even Czechpoint advertises that US buyers can fasten a stock to the “pistol”, making it an SBR in the US, as long as they apply for the appropriate tax stamp.

The RCMP acknowledges this in their ruling, and the information can be found online easily enough.

In Canada, we could do the same. Buy a vz58 rifle, remove the stock and have the RCMP lab, or a verifier classify it as a pistol. Given the FRT now exists for a CSA pistol, verification should be easy.

The magazine:
Given the above, all vz58 receivers start out in life as vz58 rifle receivers. There are no receivers that are built, and intended from the ground up to be pistol receivers. One might say “what about the AR15 pistol and XCR pistol receivers???” Well, these are forged, and roll marked at the time of production as “pistols”. It is roll marked right into the side. They were never rifles, and were never modified from rifles into pistols. Pistols from birth.

The RCMP have stated that the current vz58 pistol magazine on the market is prohibited. They argue that all vz58 pistols currently on the market (one in Canada, more in the US for import) are modified rifles. As the original manufacture has only ever made rifle receivers, and all pistol versions are converted rifles, then all magazines currently on the market are rifle magazine designed and have been adapted to be pistol magazines, by stamping “pistol magazine” on the side. And we know how that plays out. It is their contention that this is no different than taking a PMAG, and stamping “pistol magazine” on the side of it.

We could buy a CSA rifle, modify it to a pistol and have it registered. We could not turn around and start decalling/stamping existing 10 round rifle mags as pistol mags. I'm not saying this is what Zahal's supplier has done, but that is what the RCMP is saying Zahal's supplier of "pistol mags" has done.

So how does one make a pistol magazine legal given this interpretation???

The only solution I can see (and I’m far from all seeing), is to produce a vz58 pistol receiver from the ground up, roll marked as a “pistol” during production, with a solid rear end that is not capable of receiving a stock in any form. As the firearm would be born as a pistol, it could never be anything else. And as an originally designed pistol, it could then have a pistol magazine designed specifically for it. Currently all vz58 production, even in the US, is focused around rifle receivers. All pistols are first rifles, modified to US standards to be pistols second.
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Simple fix. Make a receiver from the very beginning as a pistol receiver.
 
chicu1981 said:
HOW IS DAY DREAMING GOING?

Need to wake up and see the political reality. We are a small group. Only way we can get what we want is sustained incremental change. FA is not going anywhere anytime soon. I am 33 and i say it would take decades of handwork to reverse that.

Go to large Canadian cities. Its very hard to change public perception. It's a PR battle not logical. It's not about facts but perceived facts. We as a group need to smarten up and learn to get things done in the new environment. Look at all the lobies which cover liberal causes and how they manage their message. We need to sound rational and reasonable.

we as group don't sound reasonable when we demand full autos for everyone without licencing.

get rid of FA with what? how do you fill that void. we need to keep FA but make it irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. We are forced to work slowly and beat back the public perception that is so prevalent these days. Anyways though, the RCMP classification process is like a puzzle wrapped in a maze placed inside a rubik's cube. I wish it was a simpler process that had clear definitions. Thanks for trying, but you are right that there needs to be legislative change before anything starts making sense.
 
chicu1981 said:
HOW IS DAY DREAMING GOING?

Need to wake up and see the political reality. We are a small group. Only way we can get what we want is sustained incremental change. FA is not going anywhere anytime soon. I am 33 and i say it would take decades of handwork to reverse that.

Go to large Canadian cities. Its very hard to change public perception. It's a PR battle not logical. It's not about facts but perceived facts. We as a group need to smarten up and learn to get things done in the new environment. Look at all the lobies which cover liberal causes and how they manage their message. We need to sound rational and reasonable.

we as group don't sound reasonable when we demand full autos for everyone without licencing.

get rid of FA with what? how do you fill that void. we need to keep FA but make it irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Finally! Someone talking some sense.
There's no point in #####ing and moaning about what should be.
We live in a nanny state, where mainstream media shapes public perception and political platforms.
If we want change, we need to see things for what they are, ACCEPT thats how they are, and then take appropriate steps.

There are alot of intelligent gun owners in Canada, with focus and a consistent method/approach we could work the system to our benefit.
Or we could whine how its not fair and continue to watch our rights and freedoms be eroded by the nannycrats who know how to play the game.
 
Top brass holes at the rcmp might be stupid. But not that stupid. There wasnt a market for a pistol version of that rifle in canada all it was, was a bunch of people standing around with hard cocks waiting to get their hands on the expensive "extra" mags that they would be selling just to get around the 5 round limit. Im not saying limiting mag size is something useful as it is complete bs but dont sit there thinking the rcmp were stupid enough to think that the majority of you care about a pistol model to add to your collection. They learned from the lar mags. If you all put more energy into getting mag restrictions changed that trying to weasel in an extra 5 rounds through technicalities you wouldnt be so damned eager to spend 3x the price on a bloody 1/3rd of a mag.
 
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