M1 Carbine and M1903 Springfield Accuracy

[purple]

Yesterday I range tested 2 M1 Carbines and 2 M1903 Springfields which I had assembled over the past year or so. The Carbines are built on a Quality Hardware and late Inland receivers with used, but sound, Inland barrels. Both Springfields are built on Remington receivers with NOS SA and HS barrels. The M1903s were shot off the bench @ 100 yds and the Carbines were shot @ 50 yds. Accuracy was fairly typical of what I have found in the past with these rifles when assembled to military spec with sound barrels, tight sights and correct stock bedding.

In the case of the M1903s I used a variety of handloads with Hornady 150gr FMJ, Nosler 155gr match and Sierra 168gr match bullets. Propellants were H4895, IMR4895, IMR4064, and Varget, all proven performers in the .30-06. Both M1903s shot 21 rds (7x 3 shot groups) into a 3.25 inch circle @ 100 yds with individual group sizes ranging from .8 up to 3.2 inches. The rifle with the SA barrel averaged 1.73 inch groups while the rifle with the HS barrel averaged 2.5 inch groups. Rifles were fired using the aperture sight in the rear sight leaf.

I used factory Rem, WRA and AE ammo in the 2 Carbines. Each rifle placed 18 rounds (6x 3 shot groups) into a 4.25 inch circle @ 50 yds. Individual group sizes ranged from .5 to 2.7 inches. The Inland averaged 1.76 inch groups while the Quality Hardware shot groups averaging 1.91 inches. M1 Carbines aren't noted for their accuracy, but these 2 performed a bit better than others that I have tested. There isn't really much that can be done to tweak carbines for accuracy. Key areas of fit are at the recoil plate and in the barrel channel and band. Barrels should be free floating when the barreled receiver is engaged with the recoil plate and should be free of any interference with the stock, except where they are drawn down on the forend tip as the barrel band is tightened. Handguards should be a bit loose as well. M1 Carbine trigger pulls are just bad and little can be done to improve them other than to swap components. The accuracy standard for M1 Carbines in US Army TM 9-1276 is for 5 out of 7 shots to fall into a 3 inch circle @ 25 yds, so I think that both would have exceeded this based on their performance @ 50 yds.

 

[sunray]

Apples and oranges comparison. The Carbine was made to replace a .45 pistol, not compete with anything. You will find 110 grain HP's or FMJ's with IMR4227 makes accurate .30 Carbine ammo though. Factory is a tick slow.
The model of Springfield an '03 or an '03A3? Just curious.

 

[purple]

I wasn't making a comparison of the two. The M1 Carbine was designed as a more effective pistol replacement and most would agree that it fulfilled this role and more quite well for many years. Many would even contend that it was the first effective `assault rifle`. I`ve always regarded a pistol as a badge of office as a minimum and, at best, as a way to extricate yourself from a close range situation until you could either find a rifle or someone else who had one. I`ve done quite a bit of pistol shooting and never found one that would produce a 2 inch group or better at 50 yds.

I was shooting M1903s, not the 03-A3 with the receiver sight. The M1903 rear sight is a reasonably good target sight, but a lousy combat sight. The rear sight leaf offers the shooter a choice of 4 different sighting options as well as an unofficial one, the big triangle or so-called `rookies delight`. You can do some very accurate shooting using the
aperture in the rear sight leaf, but I`d hate to have to find targets with it in a field situation.

 

[beltfed]

I used factory Rem, WRA and AE ammo in the 2 Carbines....There isn't really much that can be done to tweak carbines for accuracy.

I don't have a lot of practical experience with the M1, but the easiest accuracy gains I have seen have been with simple, hand loaded ammo.
I've gone from printing ~6" 10 round groups with Winchester and Federal factory FMJ to ~3" 10 round groups at 100yards with Sierra 110s, 12.0 grains of VV N110, and Winchester brass and primers - nothing fancy, but works awesome.

 

[x westie]

Excellent posts guys, lots of good info, always a good read...!

I have a Remington 1903a3,built in 43, i really like the aperature sight on this model, but as Purple mentions the folding leaf sight on the 1903 isnt the best in a combat situation, the 03 Springfield seemed to be a very well liked and reliable rifle in the US military, the 03 Springfield is not too commonly seen in Canada,at gunshows, or listed for sale on EE as it was never issued to Canadian troops as the Model 1917 rifle was .

I have had my 03a3 for almost 30 years, bought it off a ad in the old Canadian gunsales paper..."The GunRunner", its a keeper for sure

 

[purple]

One of the big problems in buying a M1903 or 03-A3 is to find one with a sound and unworn barrel. A lot of the wartime barrels are toast as a result of heavy use and/or shooting with wartime corrosive primed ammo w/o proper cleaning. NOS GI barrels can still be found, but expect to pay $400 for a M1903 barrel and $250-$300 for an 03-A3 barrel before installation.

Assuming that the barrel is good, there are some critical areas to look at to get the best accuracy from the rifle. These are;

1. The M1903 rear sight. These can become loose from wear or abuse and a loose base will not allow for repeatable accuracy. Quite often the windage screw needs replacement. The movable sight base that rotates on the fixed stud or post can also be loose. There are several fixes for this. I keep a supply of movable bases on hand to selectively fit them. You can also shim the top of the fixed base post and/or peen down the front or rear lips of the fixed sight base to tighten things up.
2. Barrel bedding. The barrel should be free of contact with the stock, except at the forend tip where the barrel should be centered in the stock channel and there should be a pressure of 5-7 lbs needed to raise the barrel out of contact with the forend tip. If the barrel is out of contact with the forend tip, it can still shoot well, but watch for interference between the top of the barrel and the metal of the upper band. If there is metal to metal contact here accuracy will suffer. Often forend tip pressure can be restored by inserting a metal shim under the rear tang of the action with the shim being drilled to allow the rear guard screw to pass thru. A modified washer of correct thickness works well here. This was a military fix to correct wood compression below the rear tang as a result of tightening the rear guard screw by inserting a shim here.
3. Fit of the recoil lug to the stock mortise. The lug must be square and seat solidly against the stock mortise. If loose, you can correct this by inserting shims between the 2 surfaces.
4. Fit of the rear action tang. There must be clearance between the rear tang and the corresponding inletting in the stock (this can be said of any Mauser type action) or the tang will act as a recoil lug and cause the stock to split or crack. This could also tend to move the recoil lug away from contact with the bearing surface in the stock.
5. Fit of the front guard screw. The guard screw should bring the action down tightly against the stock without bottoming out in the hole. All Springfield and Rock Island made actions as well as early Remington actions have a blind hole for the front guard screw. Later Remington '03 actions and all 03-A3 actions have this hole drilled thru. There are 2 lengths of front guard screws. The 03-A3 screw is longer and can bottom out in the blind hole on an '03 action leaving the receiver loose against the stock. test for bottoming out with the longer screw by putting a bit of lipstick on the end of the screw. If it is too long, the end can be dressed off a bit until it fits. The fit of the front guard screw can also affect the amount of barrel pressure at the forend tip.

One of the really nice things about the M1903 is that it is the original home of the world standard .30-06 ctg. There is a huge selection of .308 bullets and propellants to experiment with to develop accurate loads.