Glocks and practice.....

misanthropist said:
If you can't shoot a Glock well, you can't shoot well.



Let's say I've taken a bunch of fairly quick cars around a track. Nobody's ever trained me; I don't have the ability to score my times against other people except perhaps informally against other complete amateurs; I have also never used anything but automatic transmissions.

Now I buy myself a G37 with a manual transmission.

After a few trips to the track - and still no training - I post a thread on a car forum that's titled something like "Infinitis suck, I'm selling mine to someone who doesn't care about going fast."




If that forum has some serious drivers, amateur or pro, highly trained and experienced, and they find out I just can't drive stick, do you know what will happen?


Some people who don't know anything about performance driving will say "just be happy with your autos, autos are awesome I love mine lol".

People with experience and skill will tell me to learn to ####ing drive.



I could take the advice of people who don't know what they're talking about, or I could take the advice of experts.

Frankly I don't care which people prefer to do...I'm really only bothered by people who can't tell the difference between good and bad advice, who still feel they should be giving input. And people who take bad advice while telling themselves it's good advice, because it's easier than taking the good advice.





If you don't care about being a good driver, you don't need to learn stick.

Even if you are a good driver, you don't have to drive a standard car.

But if you can't drive stick, you're not really a great driver, so don't pretend you are.
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Well said sir.

Let me elaborate on the trigger issue and their use by top competitors.

The top competitors are looking to put icing on their cake, perhaps an intricate design. You people can't even bake the cake let alone whip up some icing for said cake. Learn to bake the cake, then worry about the icing.

Tdc
 
One thing is sure and many peoples a right here, but myself especially since i got that 17L and had the 3.5 pounds springs and connector installed in all my Glocks, i just love and appreciate shooting my Glocks ( 17L/21/22 ), i did not take much to change the trend but i did work big time... Good results are always quite satisfactory... And in my book it is the important thing... JP.
 
When I first got on here misanthropist, TDC and Wicked Police all rubbed me the wrong way as well, why? Because I let my ego do the talking and become involved. When you sit back and think about what they are saying, its not mean or snobbish, its the truth. It depends on what your intended purpose is for your firearm, if its to be a weekend warrior like me that only shoots now and then, then that is fine. If you want to mod the gun so its easier to shoot for you, then that's fine too. Its your gun.

If you want to be the very best operator you can be and learn the fundamentals to shoot any gun good, then you need training. You don't know what you don't know and will keep making the same mistakes.

Where these guys and myself get peed, is when you start a thread bashing a gun saying its garbage because you lack the skills to shoot it correctly.


I havnt shot in months, but when I get my new reg papers for my glock 22, ill take a pic of my average targets and show with the little training I have had, how you can shoot a glock half decent. Stock glock 22 with 5.5lb trigger.

Wicked police put up some pics of his targets awhile ago, I tried to find them in another thread but the pics are not there. I hope he puts them up again in here as its worth taking a look.
 
This thread is weird.
Only the results matter.
I think I will make a big fat wood grip for my CZ and mess up the trigger and only shoot double action. Gotta get better somehow." If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge anything"
 
misanthropist said:
If you can shoot a Glock, you can shoot other easy pistols. Glocks are pretty low on the hard-to-shoot spectrum.

If you can shoot an early Charter Arms in DA fast, you can shoot anything. Or a bad DAO Smith. Or early production DAK SIG.

Glocks are pretty easy, they're just not DEAD easy like some guns.


I have been slacking off this entire year but I can generally knock out a perfect Dot Torture at 7 yards with a Glock. I would like to give it a go at 10 or maybe 15...that would be work.
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I agree with this, while a Glock will show flaws that a crisp, light single action trigger can hide, I wouldn't call it overly difficult or "unforgiving" either. The weight is heavier and the travel longer than a single action trigger, but everything else (take up, back wall, break) is pretty well defined, predictable and repeatable. When the take up is mushy, the break feels inconsistent and the reset is faint, I'd call that harder to shoot than any Glock.
 
Have a look here.
10 ring is about 2 inches.
Offhand and iron sights at 50 Meters.

50m Pistol Men

SPECIFICATION​
DESCRIPTION​
QUALIFICATION​
 60 shots fired in Standing position - Prior to the first competition shot, any number of sighting shots may be fired.
- Shots are fired within a time limit of 120 minutes.
WHO QUALIFIES FOR THE FINAL?​
 The best 8 shooters enter the final - The 8 shooters with the highest “Qualification score” enter the final.
FINAL​
 10 shots fired in Standing position - Shots are fired on command within a time limit of 75 seconds per shot.
- Each shot is evaluated in decimal tenths.
WHO WINS THE MATCH?​
 The shooter who totalizes the highest “Total score” wins “Qualification” and “Final” scores are added to determinate the “Total score”.
TARGET​
 The target is placed 50 meters far from the shooter’s stand The target is divided into 10 rings.
10 RING DIAMETER​
 50 mm (about 2 inches) The 10[SUP]th[/SUP] ring is not wider then a small espresso cup.
GUN​
 Single loaded, small bore pistol in 5.6 mm (.22”) calibre. - A well fitting grip is used but this must not touch any part of the wrist.
- No restriction on weight, dimension or trigger pull.
SIGHTS​
 Only open sights are permitted - No optical sights are used.
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SQUAREHEAD1 said:
Never seen anyone shoot a palm sized group offhand at 50 metres...
Like to see it though...
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http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/championships/olympic_games.ashx
 
A fist size group at 50 is impressive no doubt. I doubt I could produce such a group, but then I'm not interested in doing so. 50 yards is pushing it for the large coarse sights on a service gun, especially when shooting for groups. Same issue with irons on a rifle at distance.

A tidibt about the changing of triggers for you folks. Jerry Miculek has heavier springs installed in his revolvers so he can shoot faster. So if he runs heavier triggers, and others run lighter triggers, then which one offers the greatest advantage? The answer is neither, its the shooter. I'm more than confident that the top shooters globally, can do very well with stock guns. In fact, here's some videos of people doing just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqWHAa84OcY
These are cops, with stock Glocks as I'm sure 3.5lbs triggers would send their legal team into a fit. And yes, that's 135 yards.

Glock 36, chambered in the slow .45ACP with the crappy stock sights and "short sight radius" at 93 yards by the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bhnq2z_Qcg

Here's unsighted fire, as in no sights on the gun at 100 yards, and poppers(smaller than the plate) at 75 yards. So why do you need or want to see a fist size group at 50?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjil10f6LeI

Here's some more of that silly gun with no sights, doing a some texas star work. Seems like he would do just fine in competition, and he didn't print a tiny group at range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOPOu8EL1mE

Here's some good shooting, but its just a stock Glock 34, you know, a service pistol on reduced size silhouette steels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSUoakuDXyI

Here's a Glock 26 at 100 yards. Again, "short sight radius" stock trigger. Skip to 3:30 and watch the hits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xjlZtqfSeU

Stock Glock seems to work fine for this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LvXJ8a5VQc

I see Mr. Luton is having issues running his stock Glock as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC5mEc6ipE

Cut the sh*t folks, if you can't shoot it stock, you can't shoot..

TDC
 
gregb said:
Is the whole point of this discussion to be able to shoot well with a stock trigger or to be able to shoot well?

If a guy can shoot loonie groups at 10 yards with an aftermarket trigger than who cares about fundamentals and training, Is he not still shooting well?
Yes the trigger may be compensating for improper fundamentals but who cares, the groups are great and he/she is enjoying themselves.

Some people don't want to shoot a 12lb trigger, why? - Because it sucks. I could live on Mr.Noodles three times a day, but I'd rather not.
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Apples and oranges; we're not talking about some boat anchor relic, with a 12 pound trigger, from an era where double action revolvers were the preferred sidearm and semi-autos were viewed with skepticism and distrust. A Glock with a factory 6 pound trigger should not be lumped into with the likes of a S&W 5906; the trigger is more difficult than a single action, yes, but it's not unreasonably difficult either.
 
jlagman said:
Apples and oranges; we're not talking about some boat anchor relic, with a 12 pound trigger, from an era where double action revolvers were the preferred sidearm and semi-autos were viewed with skepticism and distrust. A Glock with a factory 6 pound trigger should not be lumped into with the likes of a S&W 5906; the trigger is more difficult than a single action, yes, but it's not unreasonably difficult either.
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Glocks have 5.5lbs triggers as stock not 6.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Glocks have 5.5lbs triggers as stock not 6.

TDC
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Yeah, I'm aware of the "5.5 lbs" number being thrown around and like anything, everyone's got a different opinion. That said, I don't think rounding up 0.5 lbs is the same ass rounding up 7.5 lbs and likening it to a 5906. But sure, for the sake of the argument, let's say 5.5 like the official Glock website says and wait for the inevitable "well my (insert brand here) trigger scale says (insert not 5.5 lbs here)" reply.
 
jlagman said:
Yeah, I'm aware of the "5.5 lbs" number being thrown around and like anything, everyone's got a different opinion. That said, I don't think rounding up 0.5 lbs is the same ass rounding up 7.5 lbs and likening it to a 5906. But sure, for the sake of the argument, let's say 5.5 like the official Glock website says and wait for the inevitable "well my (insert brand here) trigger scale says (insert not 5.5 lbs here)" reply.
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Agreed, but literature and advertised stock weight is what should be used. The triggers on any older S&W autos are abnormally heavy, long and inconsistent, as far as my experience with them is concerned.

TDC
 
Wretched said:
So if I'm following the thrust of this thread correctly, I should buy a Glock?
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Buy whatever you like as long as it's a reliable firearm. Get the basic skills and you should be able to shoot it. If you find that certain models, for whatever reason allows you to more consistently apply fundamentals, by all means use that one.
 
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