300 RUM & 416 rigby, Another which cartridge thread
- Thread starter cupar1
- Start date
OP is from Alberta, eh?
Go figure.
We Alberta folks idle is set a tad high. Seems like we are a trifle quick to offend too ( I'm sure offence can be found in this statement as well )
It's almost as though there is a 'need to impress' ingrained in our collective mindset. ( Painting with a Broad brush here; seems as though only the squeaky wheel gets noticed right?)
416 seems like overkill.
But I'm no expert on the matter, though I do enjoy reading good opinions on it. And I'd say there are a couple decent opinions posted here.
Stay Safe
Go figure.
We Alberta folks idle is set a tad high. Seems like we are a trifle quick to offend too ( I'm sure offence can be found in this statement as well )
It's almost as though there is a 'need to impress' ingrained in our collective mindset. ( Painting with a Broad brush here; seems as though only the squeaky wheel gets noticed right?)
416 seems like overkill.
But I'm no expert on the matter, though I do enjoy reading good opinions on it. And I'd say there are a couple decent opinions posted here.
Stay Safe
Okotoks AB. And I do believe the alberta mind set is if it can be done with this then it'll be done better with that. Trucks, cars, houses, and even snowblowers for people without driveways. My ram hasn't had it's second oil change yet and before it's first I had already lifted it 2.5" front and 1.75" rear.
I personally wouldn't use either on a white tail when I can use a 270win. (Probably my first choice as I have it mounted with my nicest scope) or a .243, I know I have a bigger is better mindset as it's obvious with my trucks, motorcycles, work tools. Pretty much everything except my wife
but I like to believe I have common sense and am responsible with all my hunting choices and always will be. Moose sausage is real tasty and dork (deer with pork cutting) is great, but I don't ever want to shoot and maime or shoot dangerously and/or inappropriately to get it. I'll still be haunting this thread if any more opinions get added, but in the mean time, have happy days and good hunting.
Edit: more detailed common sense: If and when I purchase any rifle I believe I have the common sense that if ammo becomes an expense that prevent me from zeroing and practising, the weight of the fun causes me to be physically tired that effects my aim, that the round causes me to flinch or hesitate. I will choose not to use it even if that means it becomes a expensive and beautiful paper weight.
I personally wouldn't use either on a white tail when I can use a 270win. (Probably my first choice as I have it mounted with my nicest scope) or a .243, I know I have a bigger is better mindset as it's obvious with my trucks, motorcycles, work tools. Pretty much everything except my wife
but I like to believe I have common sense and am responsible with all my hunting choices and always will be. Moose sausage is real tasty and dork (deer with pork cutting) is great, but I don't ever want to shoot and maime or shoot dangerously and/or inappropriately to get it. I'll still be haunting this thread if any more opinions get added, but in the mean time, have happy days and good hunting.Edit: more detailed common sense: If and when I purchase any rifle I believe I have the common sense that if ammo becomes an expense that prevent me from zeroing and practising, the weight of the fun causes me to be physically tired that effects my aim, that the round causes me to flinch or hesitate. I will choose not to use it even if that means it becomes a expensive and beautiful paper weight.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
It's not a personal slight, I just never saw the point of buying a Ferrari to drive around the parking lot. Meat damage is more the result of inappropriate bullet construction relative to impact velocity. Drive a Ballistic Tip at RUM velocity and you're doomed. Conversely, drive a heavy TSX at 308 velocity and the performance will suffer. Flip the script and run the TSX into a moose at 50 paces with 90 grains of powder driving it and the performance will be outstanding and the meat damage minimized.
Whether you like it or not, this does not amount to shooting "experience". This is a person who has shot a few times. Think about the thousands of rounds a dedicated waterfowler puts through a shotgun in a season. That's experience. Roughly 140 rounds of centerfire (excluding the x36 which I will unabashedly profile as you owning an SKS and burning through part of a case of ammo) is less than a match shooter, in a number of disciplines, would put through in a weekend.
Believe me about the flinch though. If you don't have the experience to know when to say when, time at the bench with any cartridge that burns 100 grains of powder will reset your blink reflex and the rest will follow in short order. Of course no flinch is truly "incurable", even Baker's experience with the 2 bore bears that out, but from the time of conception to cure they are a real problem.
Thank you for the advice, I do not own an sks, a family friend does, I decided that smaller calibers such as 270 and 243 that I have most of my hunting experience with did not bother mention as they do not kick. I also choose to abstain from including one time shooters such as 338 rum, .58 muzzle loader, .408 chey tac. As I didn't have any real time at the bench with them. Also 9mm, 7.62x25, 44mag and other handgun rounds had no place being mentioned in this thread.
That being said I really liked your last post and will take it seriously and honestly if you were able to quantify all of my fire arm time, you may still call me an amateur. However I hope based on others praise of you, you'd call me intelligent if nothing else.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Most of us have pushed past our comfort zone in this thread recoil wise, I know I have, and it will cause a good deal of grief accross all of your shooting. One or five rounds is a lot different than shooting enough to know a rifle and be competent with it. I pushed past my own threshold and developed a flinch just with hot 300gr .375 H&H loads, and I'd fired much heavier recoiling guns previously for a few rounds successfully and presumed myself recoil immune. Shooting a full afternoon of the hot .375 ruined my shooting for longer than I'd like to admit, it took a .308 rifle match to straighten me out and get me focusing on the target and forgetting the rifle again. I've yet to meet a shooter immune to recoil, even those who work with a .470 Nitro of .458 Lott in their hands in Africa for a living. I've since pushed my threshold up again and again, about to see what .505 Gibbs does to me and frankly a little leery of a set back like I experienced in the past. It's embarrassing, frustrating, and I even noticed it with a crossbow. Worth being wary.
As for the .300 Ultra "power levels", got nothing against them personally, I like to use as few rifles as possible and know them well, don't mind having different loads on hand as long as there is no chance of a mix up. I do the same with handloads for Africa, both plains game cartridges, and heavy dangerous game cartridges packed on evey trip.
As for the .300 Ultra "power levels", got nothing against them personally, I like to use as few rifles as possible and know them well, don't mind having different loads on hand as long as there is no chance of a mix up. I do the same with handloads for Africa, both plains game cartridges, and heavy dangerous game cartridges packed on evey trip.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Also remember that they treat you much more respectably when shot standing. My load development with the 416 was done from a standing rest. The brits saved my backside (and shoulder) with that bit of genius. I had no such animal when I built loads for the 470 and shooting sessions were necessarily limited to 4 shots per outing. That was enough. When I first bought my 458 a good (but sadly departed too early) friend of mine and I spent an afternoon busting rocks offhand on a hillside in the Chilcotin. Hind legs are the best place to be.
I'll toss my hat in the ring.
I've owned both 375H&H and 416Rigby in Ruger#1 rifles. Also own a 300RUM in a Savage model 111F I think it is, weighs like 7lbs with a flexing wet noodle of a forearm stock, pencil barrel.
Hands down my fav big caliber is the 375H&H. The 416 was nice but $$$ to feed so I sold it quickly as I really didn't have a need for it. The Savage kicked so hard I still have 13 rounds remaining of the 20 round box I bought with the gun 10 years ago. Its never seen the light of day since its first range trip. The Savage sits in the safe next to a broken Norinco SKS, reminds me not to buy Norinco and not to buy magnum calibers in featherweight guns.
My advice is the following, its your money so buy whatever puts a smile on your face.
On a personal note, when I'm looking for a long term rifle purchase I go with wood. Years of use, dings and marks give wood character. While scratched plastic will always be ugly IMHO.
I've owned both 375H&H and 416Rigby in Ruger#1 rifles. Also own a 300RUM in a Savage model 111F I think it is, weighs like 7lbs with a flexing wet noodle of a forearm stock, pencil barrel.
Hands down my fav big caliber is the 375H&H. The 416 was nice but $$$ to feed so I sold it quickly as I really didn't have a need for it. The Savage kicked so hard I still have 13 rounds remaining of the 20 round box I bought with the gun 10 years ago. Its never seen the light of day since its first range trip. The Savage sits in the safe next to a broken Norinco SKS, reminds me not to buy Norinco and not to buy magnum calibers in featherweight guns.
My advice is the following, its your money so buy whatever puts a smile on your face.
On a personal note, when I'm looking for a long term rifle purchase I go with wood. Years of use, dings and marks give wood character. While scratched plastic will always be ugly IMHO.
I think the mindset here is mistaken.
Often AB folks ( especially 'Patch) have the mindset that 'too much, is just right'
Adequate isn't...well adequate.
I've worked with guys who wanted a 50BMG. When I asked 'Do you shoot a lot? Is that why you want a 50?' the reply was 'No I don't shoot much at all. I want a 50 because it's the biggest dog in the pack' And he had the coin to drop on one too, even unneeded.
Of course this is coming from a self admitted AB resident; who 'only' has a 375 WM. I must be 'AB light'
Can scarcely mention this 'Minimum caliber out loud when out with my peers'
Just keeping it light; but I'm not far off from a peculiar reality here
Edit; by no means are all AB folk like this, but there is a lot of one-upsmanship in the stereotypical AB mindset.
Often AB folks ( especially 'Patch) have the mindset that 'too much, is just right'
Adequate isn't...well adequate.
I've worked with guys who wanted a 50BMG. When I asked 'Do you shoot a lot? Is that why you want a 50?' the reply was 'No I don't shoot much at all. I want a 50 because it's the biggest dog in the pack' And he had the coin to drop on one too, even unneeded.
Of course this is coming from a self admitted AB resident; who 'only' has a 375 WM. I must be 'AB light'
Can scarcely mention this 'Minimum caliber out loud when out with my peers'
Just keeping it light; but I'm not far off from a peculiar reality here
Edit; by no means are all AB folk like this, but there is a lot of one-upsmanship in the stereotypical AB mindset.
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I appreciate it, my father is starting to favour synthetics and my brother is full synthetic, but I love the look and feel of a wood stock plus I have never minded a little extra weight. I agree 100% thanks for the input. Not that's there's anything wrong with synthetics. It's a personal preference thing for me.
Bah @tokguy: the patch is the new adequate it's the sands that are owning patch trucks even though they drive groomed roads to work indoors all day. (Not everyone but that is a stereotype) however your stereotyping is what I've seen as well. Out duck and goose hunting in high river I see about %15 10 gauge and 0% smaller then 12 gauge. I use 2 3/4 or 3" but I see a lot of 3-1/2" shells because bigger must be better lol, I always go home with something . Thanks for keeping the conversation light.
. Thanks for keeping the conversation light.There are certain ' Stereotypes' that ring true to some degree.
I've worked in BC, AB, Sask, MN, NB & PEI
BC; they might hug a tree.
AB; we've covered that.
Sask / MB; a tad hokey, perhaps flowered curtains in the kitchen.
NB; pretty casual
PEI; kinda hokey and might hug a tree ( or a Holstein Milk cow, lots there).
Stay safe and good luck
I've worked in BC, AB, Sask, MN, NB & PEI
BC; they might hug a tree.
AB; we've covered that.
Sask / MB; a tad hokey, perhaps flowered curtains in the kitchen.
NB; pretty casual
PEI; kinda hokey and might hug a tree ( or a Holstein Milk cow, lots there).
Stay safe and good luck
well using that logic then you'd never get the Ferrari off your street and onto the highway... anything under 100km/hr would not be "proper" in your definition..
as I clearly stated and would again.. I take a 30-06 for deer.. but I dont' travel for 8 hours without a BACKUP.. I'm not spending $800 on a backup gun that I use 1-2 every 7-8 years.. having a 300RUM with power level 1, as a BACKUP (I'm assuming you do know that the means..) is more then proper..
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I know what you mean, but there is no reason to neuter the RUM. It will do the job as normal. If you want to shoot a 30-06 just do it. There's no sense in shooting a RUM at 06 speeds. It's stupid.
You going to tell that to a 60 year old buddy of mine (who shoots a 270 and weights a buck 140) who can't handle a 300 RUM full load, and needs a backup gun cause be banded his scope?
I would say to your buddy not to use a 300rum at all, and if he was my buddy I'd allow him to borrow a more suitable rifle for him or tell him "rotten luck", and based on financial consideration's I might add "maybe you should get a back up."
CKC I have no issue's with using "power level ammo" it's no different from a hand loader making hot and slow rounds. 2 bullets for 1 gun doing 2 separate things. However my buddy's gun failing is not a consideration for me. My youngest brother (30) gun's scope being knocked inaccurate or critical jam or my fathers or whoever. We may bring a back up rifle if we go in a group of 3 or more that anyone who needs could use. However my rifle and ammo choice wouldn't be based on a in-case.
CKC I have no issue's with using "power level ammo" it's no different from a hand loader making hot and slow rounds. 2 bullets for 1 gun doing 2 separate things. However my buddy's gun failing is not a consideration for me. My youngest brother (30) gun's scope being knocked inaccurate or critical jam or my fathers or whoever. We may bring a back up rifle if we go in a group of 3 or more that anyone who needs could use. However my rifle and ammo choice wouldn't be based on a in-case.
I have hunted, shot and have a friend that is a bison rancher in northern bc, if you know where to shoot them there is no need to use a cannon. I have many cannon but used a 7mm mag to that two bison the sweet spot is in a straight line with the horn two inches behind the ear, if you hit that the flop over and one of their hind legs go up like a boner! so you know you have hit them perfect. they are not hard to kill once you do it.
I guess thier not really your buddies then.. just some guys you hunt with.. they guys I'm with are like family, I've been hunting with them for 20 years, and would spend all night looking for them in a swap with no light..
your guns are obviously more important then your close friends..
