Drooling over the new Winchester 1873

mr00jimbo

mr00jimbo

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That blued 20" model is just gorgeous. But they're rarer than hen's teeth in Canada. I don't shoot any CAS or SASS or whatever, just a plinker because I have fallen in love with levers.

But by many accounts, shooting a lot of .357 magnum in its standard load offerings through the gun is apparently a big no-no because of the action design, which kind of sucks because I'd hate to have a gun I'd have to load down for and baby.
But then I wonder....the .357 is mild in recoil and small in diameter...but would the high PSI of the round batter the gun up? Would Winchester or Uberti put their name on something that would shoot loose by the round stamped on its barrel? There is no +P .357 magnum, but there is SAAMI spec, I'd imagine.

I have some strong action guns (two 1892s and a Marlin 1894) but want to be able to shoot standard loads out of all of them.

Still lustin' after that Japanese Winchester '73. :)
 
I wouldn't worry about standard .357 loads in the Miroku 73. Though the toggle action is a weak design the steel used in the Japanese version is considerably higher quality than the original 1873.
 
I'm wondering what they've done to allow it to feed both 357 and 38

As far as I recall there's no magazine interrupter in a 73 and so they are pretty fussy about OAL
 
Mark-II said:
I'm wondering what they've done to allow it to feed both 357 and 38

As far as I recall there's no magazine interrupter in a 73 and so they are pretty fussy about OAL
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There is a long sloping cut made in the front end of the elevator that allows/forces the next round to return back into the mag tube as the elevator is raised.

I have had the opportunity to test 2 of the 73 Japchesters in the last couple of weeks, both .45 LC and am very impressed. Both functioned right out of the box well enough to be considered good main match rifles without any mods (not a claim I will make about any Uberti). One of them shoots one hole groups at 50 yrds.

As for the issue of shooting full house .357 mag in a toggle action gun, Personally I would never do it. It's not the metal quality that concerns me, its the accuracy of the machining that makes or breaks the toggle action. Some Uberti's will handle a steady diet of mag rounds, some I've have in my shop are damaged considerably in a few rounds. The damage can be in the form of broken/bent pins, broken toggles, oblong holes in the back pin boss of the frame and so on. If the machining tolerances are tight at the pin bosses/toggle joints and don't allow any room for hammering from recoil you might have a gun that will handle magnum rounds.

Of course I am speaking of Uberti's only here, the japchesters may be better as I've never had the side plates off either of the ones I had in my hands but my Uberti''s will only ever see mild loads.
 
Fingers, would they be better suited to .45 LC? Would those loads be less impact on it?
It strikes me as curious that they'd chamber them in .357 but not be able to handle it, even knowing that the main market is CAS. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen, no?
 
That's the only way that I could think of it working myself - a ramped lifter.

I'm interested in the rifle myself. I wouldn't run full house .357 through it but I would certainly like to run it hotter than a .38 would be. .45 colt is another option, of course
 
mr00jimbo said:
Fingers, would they be better suited to .45 LC? Would those loads be less impact on it?
It strikes me as curious that they'd chamber them in .357 but not be able to handle it, even knowing that the main market is CAS. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen, no?
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No, not to my way of thinking, .45's can be loaded up to quite rammy loads and the bigger bullet will rival a .357 mag round in recoil. I treat all toggle action guns the same...with tlc regardless of what chambering is marked on the barrel.

As for the liability issue, I don't see one as they are all built with modern metal alloys engineered to withstand the internal pressure without endangering the shooter...basically they do this...I have yet to see one explode...just seen lots of breakage of internal parts that haven't injured any shooter that I'm aware of. Injuries need to be part of the outcome to warrant lawsuits of any magnitude.
 
Mike Webb said:
I wouldn't worry about standard .357 loads in the Miroku 73. Though the toggle action is a weak design the steel used in the Japanese version is considerably higher quality than the original 1873.
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The modern steel used in these rifles will not handle a continuous diet of factory or handloaded ammo at SAAMI pressure limits which top out at around 44,000 psi. in the 357 mag. Winchester knows of this limitation of the toggle link lock-up of the new '73, but unfortunately doesn't make much of a deal about warning folks about full house factory loads. Factory reps have actually let certain gun writers know that extended use of factory .357 loads (Excluding cowboy action loads.) will pound headspace into the action over time.

I personally will not load mine with loads that produce over 15,000 psi. as the original '73 operated at black powder pressure levels in the 12,000 psi. range. I love my Miroku '73 and I ain't gonna bash it with loads it ain't designed for.
View attachment 15764
 
Anyone know how long the stroke is on the Mirokus? The Ubertis have a longer stroke than an original, so there is a booming short-stroke kit market. Is this necessary in the japchester?
 
If they won't handle stout loads, then I'd probably opt for 44WCF or 45colt for the fun factor and load them to the same level as my revolvers...

Pity that the 38-40 gets no love
 
Claven2 said:
Anyone know how long the stroke is on the Mirokus? The Ubertis have a longer stroke than an original, so there is a booming short-stroke kit market. Is this necessary in the japchester?
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I hear that S/S kits are available for them. Are they nessesary...the two I have tested are as smooth out of the box as Uberti's are after considerable gunsmithing & expense... a s/s kit may help a top competitor (or you have an ongoing "serious" competitive match with your spouse) by a couple of seconds in a match but the ordinary "fun shooter" won't benefit much... and they are considerably less expensive at the gunstore door.
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
The modern steel used in these rifles will not handle a continuous diet of factory or handloaded ammo at SAAMI pressure limits which top out at around 44,000 psi. in the 357 mag. Winchester knows of this limitation of the toggle link lock-up of the new '73, but unfortunately doesn't make much of a deal about warning folks about full house factory loads. Factory reps have actually let certain gun writers know that extended use of factory .357 loads (Excluding cowboy action loads.) will pound headspace into the action over time.

I personally will not load mine with loads that produce over 15,000 psi. as the original '73 operated at black powder pressure levels in the 12,000 psi. range. I love my Miroku '73 and I ain't gonna bash it with loads it ain't designed for.
View attachment 15764
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Always love seeing pics of your rifle!
I don't reload, that's my problem. How "hot" is factory ammunition, generally in terms of pressure?
 
mr00jimbo said:
Always love seeing pics of your rifle!
I don't reload, that's my problem. How "hot" is factory ammunition, generally in terms of pressure?
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Factory stuff, as far as far as jacketed stuff goes is in the 40,000 psi. range. For folks that don't handload, then
lead bullet .38 specials(Not +P loads) work fine in the '73 if you can't get .357 Cowboy Action loads. Round nose or round nose flat points feed the best in lever guns.:)
 
If round nosed bullets are used in a 73 in .357 mag,.45LC or 44-40 they must be very light loads (even at that I don't recommend their use) and the bullets must be seated deeper than the regular crimp ring...nominal OAL must be followed in these rifles.
 
I guess I'll have to console myself with my Uberti, Ihave too much into it to justify a new Winchester to replace it.

(Slix springs, lightened mainspring, hollow pin extension, reduced pin spring, short stroke kit, PGW sights, machined & lightened lifter, etc.)

This one is a .45 Colt.

 
Claven2 said:
I guess I'll have to console myself with my Uberti, Ihave too much into it to justify a new Winchester to replace it.

(Slix springs, lightened mainspring, hollow pin extension, reduced pin spring, short stroke kit, PGW sights, machined & lightened lifter, etc.)

This one is a .45 Colt.

Click to expand...

That's a nice '73 with all the goodies. If it shoots decently tight, then I'd make 'er a keeper as well.:)
 
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