Got a single shot 45-70 last week, picked up a few boxes of shells, some dies and bullets, I found a load in a hornady book, my question to you fellows is has anyone loaded and shot 500 grain jacketed bullets from their 45-70? Is the recoil going to knock me on my ass? The book said about 1800fps behind some 3031, any input would be great!
45-70 input,
- Thread starter Craig0ry
- Start date
...1800 fps with a 500 grain bullet? ...that's starting to get pretty stiff in a 45-70 ...hope it's not a handi-rifle? ...but that's a full-out load in a light rifle ...loaded some up just under that for a friend and he returned them ...going after a t-rex?!
You might want to try posting in the reloading section...
I load to Ruger levels in my single shot .45/70's... I mainly shoot Lyman 405's and Hornady 325 FTX bullets... but I shoot them faster. Which single shot do you have? If it is the H&R Buffalo Classic... it can be a bit of a brute... I took to loading mine down, and loaded up my Ruger No.1.
I load to Ruger levels in my single shot .45/70's... I mainly shoot Lyman 405's and Hornady 325 FTX bullets... but I shoot them faster. Which single shot do you have? If it is the H&R Buffalo Classic... it can be a bit of a brute... I took to loading mine down, and loaded up my Ruger No.1.
I found your Hornady load data: it say's its for a Ruger #1 strength of action. Could you tell us what model and design single shot it is. I would also take into consideration the weight of the rifle for felt recoil. Let us know how it goes!!!!
It is a handi rifle indeed do they have a bad rep? and triceratops, I hear its better eating,
And I just glanced it over quick, I would start with a lesser load to start but I think throwing 500 grains down range would a lot of fun
Well, I see that while I was composing the chapter below, several others have chimed in, but FWIW:
1800 fps with a 500 gr. bullet is very stout. Do you know if the rifle will handle it? (Ruger Nº1, no problem. Handi-Rifle, not so sure.) I load my Marlin 1895 to about 1750-1800 with 405 gr. hard-cast and the recoil is about 35 fps., roughly the same as a .338 WM. According to the recoil calculator at Handloads.com, a 500 gr. bullet @ 1800 fps. over 53 gr. of powder (apparently this charge of 3031 will give 1800 fps), in a 7.5 lb. rifle, will generate about 52 ft-lbs.
So yes, IF your gun will handle it, you are going to get whacked hard. If you are accustomed to shooting a .458 WM, it probably won't bother you all that much. Otherwise a) put a Limb-saver pad on it and b) stock up on Ibuprofen.
Given that Brian Pearce took a Cape Buff with a Cor-Bon load of 405 gr HC @ 1800fps and the bullet went clear through both shoulders and into a sow behind and killed both - to the amazement of his PH - you don't need that much thump for anything in N. America, but we all know that isn't always the point
As I recall. one of the guys here on CGN, who carries a Guide Gun for protection in the bush (and who also has an ATC for a handgun) was loading Jae-Bok Young's 550 gr. hard-cast "Piledrivers" to about 1500 fps. and he seemed to feel safe with that. While we're on the subject of recoil, I can't resist adding this story:
From Cartridges of the World, 11th Ed., p.224
Around 1960, Fred Barnes (of Barnes Bullet fame) built himself a 475 A&M-chambered rifle, based on a sporterized Enfield action. With its open sights that rifle weighed no more than 8 pounds. Being Fred Barnes, his initial handloading effort combined stiff charges of IMR 3031 behind his 600-grain bullets***. He, friends, and a small group of well-wishers went to an informal shooting range near Grand Junction, Colo. Fred sat down on the pea gravel of the parking area and crossed his legs to fire from the sitting position. He took dead aim at the base of a small juniper tree, which was tenuously hanging on at the top edge of a roadway cutbank.
When Fred pulled the trigger, everyone was watching for the impact. The shot went low. The tree was summarily uprooted! All watchers cheered as the tree fell, then, as a group, they looked around to find what Barnes' reaction might be. There he was, located several feet behind his original position, lying on his back, arms outstretched, holding the rifle above his head. Dust from the muzzle blast and his ignoble recoil-induced slide (he had absorbed well over 110 foot-pounds of energy) was still stirring when Fred asked, matter-of-factly, "Anybody want to buy a rifle?" He found no takers.
(*** 600 SP | 105 gr. of 3031 | 2502 fps | 8340 FP)
Good luck Around 1960, Fred Barnes (of Barnes Bullet fame) built himself a 475 A&M-chambered rifle, based on a sporterized Enfield action. With its open sights that rifle weighed no more than 8 pounds. Being Fred Barnes, his initial handloading effort combined stiff charges of IMR 3031 behind his 600-grain bullets***. He, friends, and a small group of well-wishers went to an informal shooting range near Grand Junction, Colo. Fred sat down on the pea gravel of the parking area and crossed his legs to fire from the sitting position. He took dead aim at the base of a small juniper tree, which was tenuously hanging on at the top edge of a roadway cutbank.
When Fred pulled the trigger, everyone was watching for the impact. The shot went low. The tree was summarily uprooted! All watchers cheered as the tree fell, then, as a group, they looked around to find what Barnes' reaction might be. There he was, located several feet behind his original position, lying on his back, arms outstretched, holding the rifle above his head. Dust from the muzzle blast and his ignoble recoil-induced slide (he had absorbed well over 110 foot-pounds of energy) was still stirring when Fred asked, matter-of-factly, "Anybody want to buy a rifle?" He found no takers.
(*** 600 SP | 105 gr. of 3031 | 2502 fps | 8340 FP)
Well Iam officially scared, I think I may hear wasted 60$ on a box of bullets, Iam not a very big dude and definitely don't need to dislocate my shoulder or have a rifle come apart infront of my face just cause I was curious, i wonder if a half charge of powder would be sufficient for a little fun
Also, does anyone know of a good proper size recoil pad that will fit a handi rifle
Made up a mock round to see what it would look like
Also, does anyone know of a good proper size recoil pad that will fit a handi rifle
Made up a mock round to see what it would look like
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Well, better scared than disassembled. You can shoot those bullets, but NOT at 500 fps. The RN looks like a solid for a .458! Do some google-fu and see what levels the Handi-rifle can handle. Or you could hold off and wait for a Ruger Nº1 in .458 or 45-70 to come up....
It's your only option if you want those velocities. This article gives the various "power levels" of the 45-70. Even Level Two (28k) looks like it will propel a 400 gr. bullet to 1800 fps and would be OK in the Handi-Rifle, but you'll be facing .338 WM recoil levels, like my loads in my 1895- which will take Level Three loads but I don't want to think about those.But if you just want to fling bullets down the range, why not get some cast? WAY cheaper to shoot. The Bullet Barn does .45 cal. hard-cast bullets from 350 to 525 gr. And even at "only" 1500 fps or so, you'll get a satisfying thump without the chiropractor's bills. Bullet Barn (www.thebulletbarn.com) has distributors in Alberta, too.
As to a recoil pad, I don't know of there are pre-fits for the Handi-rifle; you might have to grind a standard one. I have a Pachmayr Decelerator (a pre-fit that's pretty close) on my 1895 and it's "adequate" with my loads, but I also bought a LimbSaver, which is supposed to be even more effective. It will have to be ground to fit, though. I also have a PAST Recoil Shield - a pad that fits over your shoulder - and it really helps. I think mine is the "field" model but they make thicker ones for really heavy kickers.
Stuart
I've loaded 405 grain bullets to just over 2000fps in my Browning 86,and have used the same load in my H&R bc and my high wall...they can really give you a root at the range ,I'm not recoil sensitive but these heavy 45-70 loads can surely make you so....I've since switched to Hornady 350 grain flat nose,running about 2100fps recoil is much better and all the guns seems to like them ...I hope to someday try out the Woodleigh 400 grain slugs at 2000fps (when I can find some )I can well imagine what 500 at 1800fps would be . the H&R buffalo classic and in turn their single shots are factory chambered for some pretty hot factory rounds,just check out the listings ... the action in turn is supposed to be able to with stand Ruger level loads ....do lots of research and then do more ,and maybe more again ....its your rifle and your body ,ultimately your choice .If I was just interested in simply plinking with this round I would shoot at factory levels
On a side note I'm 6'1 about 240 ,when working up loads for the steel butt 86 (probably running twenty rounds or so),I always end up with a bruised shoulder...these loads are hunting loads ,NOT plinking loads !
On a side note I'm 6'1 about 240 ,when working up loads for the steel butt 86 (probably running twenty rounds or so),I always end up with a bruised shoulder...these loads are hunting loads ,NOT plinking loads !
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
STOP!
The data you quote is for a Ruger #1, a falling block single shot, which is one of the strongest actions available, and one that is commonly chambered for true African big bore cartridges. The Handi-Rifle is not in this class. If you've loaded ammo to this level, pull it, and start over. Don't think in terms of heavy recoil, think in terms of being blinded, and possibly having fingers blown off! A jacketed 500 can be seated long in a single shot, if your chamber throat is long enough to allow it, and this will help to reduce pressure, but it does not reduce the pressure enough to make a Handi rifle safe with a load consisting of a 500 gr bullet over 53 grs of 3031!
If you are concerned about the effects of recoil, and you should be, perhaps you should be starting at the other end of the spectrum and working up until you find your comfort level. The 500 gr bullets are fine, you can use them, but with a much lighter load. You could start with a load of about 40 grs of 3031, yes I know its lower than recommended in the Hornady book, but 3031 has a medium burning rate, and light loads in a straight wall cartridge will not cause you any grief.
A gunsmith can instal a good quality recoil pad for you, a Decelerator or a Limb Saver are both viable choices. Perhaps ask him at the same time as to the viability and cost of bushing the firing pin.
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Kaboomstick
CGN Regular
- Location
- The District of Hesse
Just looking at the picture of the two rounds...check your trim legnth...FTX's and standard .45-70 loads take different case trim lengths. 4198 is a nice powder for lighter loads, 3031 for stout ones.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The differences in trim length have to do with accommodating an OAL that would cycle through the '95 Marlin, and serves no purpose in a single shot. With this in mind, be aware, that in straight wall cases, case length and seating depth have a measurable affect on pressure. What I would say though is that if you're going to apply a crimp to your bullets, seat them so the case mouth comes even with the top of the cannelure, before crimping, then crimp as a step separate from seating.
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I've shot the 500gr Hornady bullets out of my Ruger #1, but not quite with max loads. My rifle has a Limbsaver recoil pad and it's still pretty painful. They are more fun at 1400fps, but the you might as well shoot cast bullets. In single shots, the Bullet Barn 450gr cast is a pile of fun at moderate velocity. The bullet sits deep in the case so most of the heavy bullet load data is actually too hot ( the crimp groove puts the oal at about 2.55" ) so you have to take that into account.
Chris.
Chris.
500!? I took my 45/70 (Marlin 1895 SBL) out yesterday with a few friends and family. At 100m, we blew the crap out of a 1/2"+ thick cast steel plate (a scrap backer from old railway rails) and he'll, one round almost blew right through it. What was left of the slug had protruded a half an inch out the back. (Someday I will figure out how to properly post pics!) Clearly that round was much hotter than the rest but these all had some kick for most and were all store bought Hornadys. Those were only 325 gr! And you want to try 500!?
A: with all do respect...your nutz!
B: yes...it has to be T-Rex!
I have a Ruger #3 and a Marlin, the #3 is a light gun. with 50gr of 3031 under a 405 cast I get 1750 at 10ft. It kicks lots . I have shot 500s but even as a hunting load they are not fun. I am going to try some new 535 cast but it will be at low speed. If you are just plinking & not hunting with these bullets than keep the velocity down to 1400 or so. It is a lot more fun. As a side note my neighbor wanted some heavy loads to impress his friends. I loaded some 500gr pointed cast. They look like little torpedos. He has most left, he nor none of his friends want anything to do with them after someone shoots one. Good luck & start low.
. I have shot 500s but even as a hunting load they are not fun. I am going to try some new 535 cast but it will be at low speed. If you are just plinking & not hunting with these bullets than keep the velocity down to 1400 or so. It is a lot more fun. As a side note my neighbor wanted some heavy loads to impress his friends. I loaded some 500gr pointed cast. They look like little torpedos. He has most left, he nor none of his friends want anything to do with them after someone shoots one. Good luck & start low.I definitely plan to start low, even slower than 1400fps would be fine for me, these will be more of a novelty load than anything else, when the rifle gets taken to the bush it with be the 325gr ftx's I appreciate the input guys
Mock round chambered and ejected just fine, no restriction at all
