Short base or full lenght .223?

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Brianma65

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I've just ordered RCBS supreme master kit. I want to order some dies, and have read that small base dies are better for semi auto ,.223. ( carbide or regular?) Any opinions on this? And what do you think of the rcbs power case trimmer? Any thing else I should get? Thanks ... Brian
 
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It's "small base". I ave no experience in .223 but I use hornady whisper/blackout dies or my AAC in the AR and that's an apples to oranges comparison. I don't think they are small base though.

Look at the WFT - worlds finest trimmer. Thank me later ;)

Also, due to their nature there is no such thing as a carbide die for anything but straight walled cases.


Well, I think redding or someone has a fancy dual ring die or something...never seen one though.
 
Mark-II said:
It's "small base". I ave no experience in .223 but I use hornady whisper/blackout dies or my AAC in the AR and that's an apples to oranges comparison. I don't think they are small base though.

Look at the WFT - worlds finest trimmer. Thank me later ;)

Also, due to their nature there is no such thing as a carbide die for anything but straight walled cases.


Well, I think redding or someone has a fancy dual ring die or something...never seen one though.
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TY
Much
 
notsorichguy said:
Small base is a FL die.....

And yes, I would get a trimmer. I recommend a WFT if you're planning on doing lots....
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ok, they are listed on Ebay as small base sets or full lenght sets. When I googled them , it said Full lenght dies cause a lot of problems in a semi auto , ar type rifle. I guess if it didn't really matter, I'll just order the small base dies.
 
I own 30+ semi-auto rifles in various calibers. I have owned another 30 + that have been sold.

Not one of them needed small base dies that size the brass more than usual.

The standard chamber in a 223 semi tends to be generous in size, so an ordinary Full Length sizer die does a fine job.

I am sure there are postings on the Internet about chambering problems. Given the millions of guys with a 223, that is to be expected.

Even my match chambers (tight) work well with standard dies.

A small base die sizes a case smaller than usual. This can cause more problems than it solves.

carry on.
 
I think if you are using brass fired out of your own gun you should be fine with a normal FL die as the brass will be fire formed to that rifle. If you are using once fired brass from a unknown gun or surplus milltary brass from a machine gun you might need a SB die but you should only need it for the first run. RCBS dies have the caliber listed followed by SB. So if you have trouble with cambering you could just another sizing die and put it in the box. The thing I like about the SB dies sets is that the bullet seating die is a taper crimp. Do you need it not likely.
 
Ganderite said:
I own 30+ semi-auto rifles in various calibers. I have owned another 30 + that have been sold.

Not one of them needed small base dies that size the brass more than usual.

The standard chamber in a 223 semi tends to be generous in size, so an ordinary Full Length sizer die does a fine job.

I am sure there are postings on the Internet about chambering problems. Given the millions of guys with a 223, that is to be expected.

Even my match chambers (tight) work well with standard dies.

A small base die sizes a case smaller than usual. This can cause more problems than it solves.

carry on.
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Thanks for the reply, google gives too much info sometimes:) . That's why I ask here. I'll take your advice . Thanks again.... Brian
 
Hey everyone , I'm new on the shooting scene, 10 months in. Anything I know, it's from CGN. I find , that sometimes if you ask a question on CGN, you're told to google it.So that's what I've been doing, guess what,I get a ton of diff answers. So I mean no disrespect to any person here, I'm just green. I've ordered a rcbs rockchucker supreme master kit, it states that it has everything to start reloading , ( but does it really)? I have powder, bullits and primers. I have a digital calliper ( that I've never ever used before). I've ordered a WFT and I am going to take Ganderites advice and get FL dies. I know I'll need shell holder or holders? Do you need more than one of the same calliper ? I'm guessing a primer removal tool comes with the kit, but should I get a better one? Right now I'm setting up for .223 , but as I'm about to do the RPAL course this morning, with any luck , I'll be loading for pistols soon:) Thanks... Brian
 
I'd recommend case gauges for each caliber you will load, you want to check your loads will actually cycle and have the correct head space.

h ttp://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/wilson-case-gage-prod33287.aspx

And at least (2) good data books..(Loading manuals)
 
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Ganderite said:
I own 30+ semi-auto rifles in various calibers. I have owned another 30 + that have been sold.

Not one of them needed small base dies that size the brass more than usual.

The standard chamber in a 223 semi tends to be generous in size, so an ordinary Full Length sizer die does a fine job.

I am sure there are postings on the Internet about chambering problems. Given the millions of guys with a 223, that is to be expected.

Even my match chambers (tight) work well with standard dies.

A small base die sizes a case smaller than usual. This can cause more problems than it solves.

carry on.
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I would previously have agreed with Ganderite but a recent acquisition of match chambered barrel has me rethinking this. I have had 2 incidents where an unfired round has gotten unretrievably stuck during feeding. On micrometering each of the 100+ batch of loaded, full sized, case gauged rounds, there were a 4 where the case diameters were a few thou over spec.

I have changed my sizing technique by holding at top-dead-centre for a second or two, as well as rotating the cases by 90 degrees before a second pass through the sizing die. This seems to have been successful so far but I'm considering getting a small base die.
 
Pr589 said:
I would previously have agreed with Ganderite but a recent acquisition of match chambered barrel has me rethinking this. I have had 2 incidents where an unfired round has gotten unretrievably stuck during feeding. On micrometering each of the 100+ batch of loaded, full sized, case gauged rounds, there were a 4 where the case diameters were a few thou over spec.

I have changed my sizing technique by holding at top-dead-centre for a second or two, as well as rotating the cases by 90 degrees before a second pass through the sizing die. This seems to have been successful so far but I'm considering getting a small base die.
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I guess it can't hurt to have both sets.
 
I bet where you find the "need" for small base will be on US forums with a heavy mil/LE audience.

with a properly built rifle, and sane loads, standard dies in standard chambers work just fine. In fact, with my semis, I just use a body die (brass is separated for each rifle). Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can hear the screams of horror and dicks falling off all over internetdom but if you understand what dies are supposed to do AND how a rifle works, it makes sense.

Pr589, if you are seeing significant expansion in the web area of your brass, consider investigating the rifle for flaws. Chamber and lock up and bolt may not be set up properly allowing the case web to expand. If elevated pressures are to be used, this is not a good long term situation.

With a properly set up bolt rifle, a case is fully supported throughout the firing cycle and thus CANNOT expand at the base (creates other potential problems but that is another story).

Even with elevated pressures... a body die suffices

Something to think about...

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
I bet where you find the "need" for small base will be on US forums with a heavy mil/LE audience.

with a properly built rifle, and sane loads, standard dies in standard chambers work just fine. In fact, with my semis, I just use a body die (brass is separated for each rifle). Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can hear the screams of horror and dicks falling off all over internetdom but if you understand what dies are supposed to do AND how a rifle works, it makes sense.

Pr589, if you are seeing significant expansion in the web area of your brass, consider investigating the rifle for flaws. Chamber and lock up and bolt may not be set up properly allowing the case web to expand. If elevated pressures are to be used, this is not a good long term situation.

With a properly set up bolt rifle, a case is fully supported throughout the firing cycle and thus CANNOT expand at the base (creates other potential problems but that is another story).

Even with elevated pressures... a body die suffices

Something to think about...

Jerry
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Yes, I got it off ar15 . Com. Said you might have feeding issues with a semi auto. I'll be loading for a XCR-l only . ( no other .223). Thanks for the input.... Brian
 
Listed on E-Bay, where money goes to the people who want to take your firearms away from you, doesn't mean squat.
Anyway, it's one or the other. A small base die sizes a few thou smaller(5 in most cases, I think) than a regular FL die. Like Ganderite says, it doesn't make any difference which one you use. However, saying FL dies don't work for semi-autos is nonsense. SB dies haven't existed for that many years and FL dies have.
 
Sounds like you probably need to do some more reading before you start reloading anything.

Small base dies are likely to wear out your brass faster. Try the FL dies first and don't worry about small base dies unless you find you need them. Chances are good you won't. I've never owned or used small base dies and i've loaded for lots of semis.
 
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