Surplus 7.62x54 problems.

davemccarthy707

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So I have about 600 rds of Chinese factory 71. Anyways, I can not get my Mosin to stop rusting after I shoot it. I have tried everything ( water down the bore, windex, bore cleaner, even wd40)Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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If you clean it well with HOT water, and oil it afterwards it shouldn't be rusting on you. I wear rubber gloves to protect my hands from the hot water. Use gun oil or Fluid Film to protect the gun, WD40 doesn't do a good enough job for long term protection.
 
I use boiling water, then a patch of soapy (dish detergent) or two through her followed by hot water again and then a dry patch followed by a patch with solvent, another dry patch and then lightly oiled patch to finish off. Sounds time consuming but its not too bad. Maybe overkill but I've never had rust. Also clean as soon as possible after shooting. Sometimes I even spray wd40 down the bore right after I shoot and do my cleaning as stated above when I get home. Buys you some time I think.
 
I have poured enough boiling water down the bore to float a battleship around.

If you dissolve the salts with water (doesn't take a lot of water), dry the bore, clean it with solvents and oil it there should be absolutely no rusting.

I can think of one of three things. 1) It's not rust but orange residue from a solvent or oil. 2) You're getting leading/copper fowling and it's rusting underneath. 3) You're not drying all the water. In the the case of copper fowling, use a more aggressive solvent, Sweets 7.62 or KG-12.
 
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How long do you leave it after you shoot it? I've left my sks for a few days after shooting corrosive ammo, and with a bit of elbow grease it cleans right up. And it's a semi auto so I've got a gas system that gets dirty along with the bolt/bolt carrier...

Hoppes no9 claims to neutralize corrosive salts. So just give it a good cleaning with that and you should be fine. I have also used Remington bore brite and pro shot one step cleaner/lubricant.

It really just comes down to removing the salts. Boiling water is supposed to dissolve them but i haven't had much luck with it either, and the ammonia in Windex is supposed to neutralize the salts but i can't say for certain it does... I've had less than stellar results with Windex too.
 
How long do you leave it after you shoot it? I've left my sks for a few days after shooting corrosive ammo, and with a bit of elbow grease it cleans right up. And it's a semi auto so I've got a gas system that gets dirty along with the bolt/bolt carrier...

Hoppes no9 claims to neutralize corrosive salts. So just give it a good cleaning with that and you should be fine. I have also used Remington bore brite and pro shot one step cleaner/lubricant.

It really just comes down to removing the salts. Boiling water is supposed to dissolve them but i haven't had much luck with it either, and the ammonia in Windex is supposed to neutralize the salts but i can't say for certain it does... I've had less than stellar results with Windex too.

Hoppe's 9 by itself is not enough to neutralize the corrosive salts.

The ammonia from Windex has nothing to do with neutralizing salts. Ammonia simply causes the water to evaporate faster.

See my previous post.
 
If you dissolve the salts with water (doesn't take a lot of water), dry the bore, clean it with solvents and oil it there should be absolutely no rusting.

I can think of one of two things. 1) It's not rust but orange residue from a solvent or oil. 2) You're getting leading/copper fowling and it's rusting underneath. In that case use a more aggressive solvent. Sweets 7.62 or KG-12.

Like he said.

Old fouling is alternating layers of metal material from the jacket and pounded in powder residue. For a newly acquired milsurp, I use alternating abrasive cleaners (JB Paste or RemClean) and copper cleaner (Sweets, WipeOut or Hoppes Benchrest). I scrub the barrel with a few patches of abrasive and then slop in a wet copper cleaner and leave the rifle overnight, muzzle down. If the stain the next day is blue, I repeat both cleaners.

Once the barrel is actually clean, all that is required is a dose of hot water after shooting, followed by a normal solvent and oil.
 
If you dissolve the salts with water (doesn't take a lot of water), dry the bore, clean it with solvents and oil it there should be absolutely no rusting.

I can think of one of three things. 1) It's not rust but orange residue from a solvent or oil. 2) You're getting leading/copper fowling and it's rusting underneath. 3) You're not drying all the water. In the the case of copper fowling, use a more aggressive solvent, Sweets 7.62 or KG-12.

This should do it.... In my experience Hoppes 9 DOES NOT neutralize salts sufficiently. Boiling hot water and a tiny bit of soap followed up by a boiling hot water flush does. The hotter the water the quicker it evaporates. Make sure you run a bunch of dry patches through to soak up any water left behind, then oil liberally. Make sure you pull it through before shooting or your oil will cook on when you shoot.
 
Like he said.

Old fouling is alternating layers of metal material from the jacket and pounded in powder residue. For a newly acquired milsurp, I use alternating abrasive cleaners (JB Paste or RemClean) and copper cleaner (Sweets, WipeOut or Hoppes Benchrest). I scrub the barrel with a few patches of abrasive and then slop in a wet copper cleaner and leave the rifle overnight, muzzle down. If the stain the next day is blue, I repeat both cleaners.

Once the barrel is actually clean, all that is required is a dose of hot water after shooting, followed by a normal solvent and oil.

I pretty much do the same routine to remove copper jacket fouling from the bore. When the military used ammo with corrosive priming it was SOP to clean the bore with hot soapy water and to follow up with a hot water rinse and another water cleaning the next day. This was/is the same practice when shooting black powder. The US Army issued those foul smelling little cans of bore cleaner which were water based. The Cdn Army just used hot water to remove the primer salts. One reason for checking and cleaning again the next day was because it was believed that the hot water would open any minute cracks in the metal fouling and cause the corrosive salt residues to lodge there leading to bore corrosion which was aggravated by the galvanic action between the steel bore and copper jacketed ammo. Maybe I'm getting lazy in my later years, but I pretty much avoid shooting any ammo with corrosive priming. I do have some wartime vintage .30 cal AP ammo and a bit of 1950 Cdn DA .303 ball which I will have to shoot some time.

Handloading eliminates all of the worries about corrosive priming and produces more accurate ammo to boot. I might be inclined to sell off that nasty old Chicom ammo and use the $$ to buy some nice Lapua or Privi brass, a set of inexpensive, but good, Lee dies and some bullets for handloading.
 
Like he said.

Old fouling is alternating layers of metal material from the jacket and pounded in powder residue. For a newly acquired milsurp, I use alternating abrasive cleaners (JB Paste or RemClean) and copper cleaner (Sweets, WipeOut or Hoppes Benchrest). I scrub the barrel with a few patches of abrasive and then slop in a wet copper cleaner and leave the rifle overnight, muzzle down. If the stain the next day is blue, I repeat both cleaners.

Once the barrel is actually clean, all that is required is a dose of hot water after shooting, followed by a normal solvent and oil.

Like mentioned above, I have seen this situation as well with certain Mosin rifles and the only ones that did this were the one with rough bores!

Even though you think you are getting all the corrosive salts and residue out some of it is remaining under the fresh layer of copper/carbon fouling and is working away underneath. This is why I only shoot corrosive ex-mil ammo in rifles with nice bores and clean all copper away between shooting and storage.

Good luck and shooting!
 
It's to bad that Young's 303 Oil and Motty's Bore Paste are no longer available in their original formulas. Combined with Wipe out or Sweet's they are an unbeatable combination.

I have about 4 cans of Young's and 1/2 jar of Motty's left. I find the when I use the Wipe Out for corrosive ammo and then apply regular Wipe out to get rid of the jacket fouling, especially with a less than perfect bore, I need to clean the bore and relube it again a few days later. If I use the Young's as a lube to store it after I haven't seen any traces of rust a couple of weeks later. Young's needs to be mixed with water and dries as a light brown coating. Young's was marketed by Parker Hale with corrosive ammo in mind.
 
I had removed all the copper fouling before shooting any ammo. The bore was a solid 8/10 with no darkness. Now I can't even get it shiny again. Frustration is an under statement.
 
I had removed all the copper fouling before shooting any ammo. The bore was a solid 8/10 with no darkness. Now I can't even get it shiny again. Frustration is an under statement.

JB barrel paste will give you a pretty shiny bore. It is a mild abrasive loaded in oil and has been in use for many yrs. If you want to get the bore "as shiny as a whore's belly on Christmas Eve", as the old Army saying goes, try some "Flitz" polish on a patch followed up by several dry patches worked back and forth. It will become a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. ;)
 
Slightly related - in my experience, wartime Mosin's aren't finished very well. My '43 M38, as much as I love it, rusts if you give it so much as a wet glance. The bore is great, though, so I've had no problems there with the same ammo you're firing. In comparison, my friend has a 1930's hex that is as resistant to corrosion and rust as any other gun out there.

Sorry to hear about your problems. That does NOT sound fun.
 
I do a boiling water, then some serious attention from Ed's Red.

Ed's Red is way better then any store bought cleaner and way cheaper too. I think I paid something like $40 for a gallon (3.79 litres) like 4 years ago, and I am only about 1/4 the way through it. It will not get the copper, but it should get everything else

Ed's Red
As a general bore cleaner, plastic wad remover, and carbon solvent the following formula, a creation of C.E Harris, and dubbed "Ed's Red" works quite well. In fact many folks claim it is better than anything they've tried. The original formula is:

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III Automatic Transmission Fluid - GM Spec D20265 or later
1 part K1 Kerosene
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits federal spec TT-T-2981F (CAS# 64741-49-9) or Stodard Solvent/Varsol
(CAS#8052-41-1)
1 part Acetone (CAS#67-64-1)

Formula Addendum

It has been reported that methyethylketone/MEK (CAS#78-93-3) can be satisfactorily substituted for the acetone if desired.

It has been reported that Turpentine can be satisfactorily substituted for the Mineral Spirits if desired. The original Frankford Arsenal formula upon which Ed's Red is based used turpentine rather than mineral spirits which were substituted for lower cost. Turpentine also tends to leave a gummy residue.

It has been reported that Kroil penetrating oil can be satisfactorily substituted for the kerosene if desired.

It has been reported that the lower numbered "JP" jet fuels can be used in place of kerosene.

It has been reported that Goo-Gone (a commercial citrus based solvent) can be satisfactorily substituted for the mineral spirits if desired.

It has been reported that commercial automotive "engine flush" can be substituted for the ATF (but you lose the red color and the lubrication qualities).

For each gallon of Ed's Red produced you can also add 1 pound of anhydrous lanolin (CAS#8006-54-0), which helps to neutralize fingerprints but it's really not necessary and current formulations generally omit it. You can also leave out the acetone but then it doesn't remove plastic wad fouling or penetrate as well. Store in airtight chemical-proof containers as the acetone, if used, will evaporate. Two sources for bulk anhydrous lanolin are http://www.selectoils.com/item--Lanolin--SO-Lanolin.html and http://www.thesage.com/ .

According to Ed, "Ed's Red" will flow at -65oF and won't carbonize at 600oF. It has seen use by both the FBI and the Army Marksmanship Training Units.

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, or chemical-resistant, heavy gage NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers. Do NOT use light weight, thin, high density polyethelyne (HDPE), which is breathable, because the acetone will gradually evaporate. Don't use PVC containers as they will dissolve. A possible online source for metal 1 pint and 1 quart screw top metal containers suitable for storing Ed's Red is http://www.taxidermy.com . This site appears to be some sort of frames based design that does not allow you to link directly to containers, but you can find them via the following site links Products | Molding and Casting | Containers, Cups and Tools. The Blitz USA line of approved gasoline containers can be obtained at Auto Zone, Home Depot, Walmart, Target, and other retailers and are what I use. (www.blitzusa.com).

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed.

You can divert a small quantity, up to 4 ounces per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an "Ed's Red-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING
a) Insure that the firearm is unloaded and that all magazines are removed. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with Ed's Red, wrap or impale on a jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.

b) Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.

c. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.

d) Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for up to 30 days. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years.

e) Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes and it could damage some plastics if left in prolonged contact.

f) Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described.

It has been reported that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean twice, two days apart, whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the residue out.
 
Like others have said boiling water is the key.

I use a kettle of boiling water poured down the barrel of my rifle followed by a pull through (usually a 7.62 bore snake with a patch wrapped around the copper wire). Then about two days later I go and check the rifle again to make sure I have gotten it all (since I started using the kettle I haven't had a issue).
 
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