Will The Modern Hunter be my new rifle

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calamari said:
This is kind of similar to George Carlin's joke (to paraphrase) those who drive slower than me are morons and those who drive faster than me are maniacs. To base the "respectability" of the rifle for hunting on it's magazine size is subjective, to say the least
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I like the joke...I must admit, I feel like that some days when I drive the highway!!!

The benefits of a semi auto, high round rifle in big game hunting are: fast repeat shots and plenty of ammo to follow up on your poor/misplaced shots.
There are no other reasons.
These guns are usually less accurate than bolt actions, they are less reliable due to more moving parts and are heavier to lug around in the woods and up mountains.
They are expensive. For $3000 you can buy two well made bolt actions with scopes that will shoot 1/2 MOA all day long.
I can see the application in hunting a pack of coyotes or a town of prairie dogs (although most hunters I know use .223 or smaller for this purpose, not the .308 we are discussing here). The .308 is a large game caliber, generally used on big critters like moose/elk/bear/deer. You are not going to be mowing down a herd of these (not legally anyways-not in Canada).
Therefore, the whole "benefit" of using such a rifle in big game hunting rests on the assumption that the hunter using this firearm is a poor shot who should not be out there in the first place.
It disrespects the game animal and the hunter who uses it.
Want to be an ethical hunter? Learn how to shoot accurately. That way you won't need a semi auto with 9 rounds to follow up on your gut-shot buck.
 
struik said:
Where are you getting "ten rounds" from? Was there a change in the law this weekend?
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As per Twoguntim:
"You get plenty of options, NR classification, semi auto, 10 round mags... The only bad news is the price! If you've got at least 4k burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. If you are a bolt guy, then in the end you will probably go back to your bolt guns, but you can always sell it on EE."
 
Billabong said:
As per Twoguntim:
"You get plenty of options, NR classification, semi auto, 10 round mags... The only bad news is the price! If you've got at least 4k burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. If you are a bolt guy, then in the end you will probably go back to your bolt guns, but you can always sell it on EE."
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In Alberta it is unlawful to Hunt Big game with an auto loading firearm that has the capacity to hold more than 5 rounds. This is the same type of law that makes you plug your pump shotgun magazine. So it doesn't really matter what mags are available, you can still only have a maximum of 5 rounds in your gun while hunting. The MF is going to be a beautiful option for all types of Canadian firearm enthusiasts. Thanks ATRS!
 
Saying someone who hunts with a semi is a "bad hunter", "poor shot" etc. is the same as saying someone with a ##### is a rapist. The fact that you are "repulsed" by the thought of hunting with this rifle speaks more about your psychological hangups than others' hunting ethics or ability. Perhaps you feel similarly about others' choice of vehicles etc? What you are advising the OP is to avoid a food you dislike personally eating in certain situations. Seems logically unsound advise to take....

This rifle is a multi-use tool. Many of us cannot afford many truly "high end" items. Often a multi-use one is our only option. In addition, your 1/2MOA rifles "all day" will not shoot like that in any normal hunting situations I have experienced. Perhaps you have the skill set to show us how your bolt gun distinguishes itself accuracy wise from the subject of this thread?
 
emerson said:
Saying someone who hunts with a semi is a "bad hunter", "poor shot" etc. is the same as saying someone with a ##### is a rapist. The fact that you are "repulsed" by the thought of hunting with this rifle speaks more about your psychological hangups than others' hunting ethics or ability. Perhaps you feel similarly about others' choice of vehicles etc? What you are advising the OP is to avoid a food you dislike personally eating in certain situations. Seems logically unsound advise to take....

This rifle is a multi-use tool. Many of us cannot afford many truly "high end" items. Often a multi-use one is our only option. In addition, your 1/2MOA rifles "all day" will not shoot like that in any normal hunting situations I have experienced. Perhaps you have the skill set to show us how your bolt gun distinguishes itself accuracy wise from the subject of this thread?
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Did I say that people who hunt with semis are bad hunters? No. What I said was that if you are gonna drop $3000 on a rifle that is heavier, less reliable and likely less accurate than one you can buy for under $1500, then you must have some sort of a reason. The only advantage you get with this gun in a big game hunting situation is to help with your "spray and pray" shooting, which is not acceptable. If there is some other advantage, please let me know what that is.

I have a Tikka Stainless bolt, in 7mm/08. It cost me under $1500 with a Nikon scope on it. It shoots 1/2 MOA all day long from a rest. Kneeling, with a sling, I get 1.5 inch groups with it. Prone, 1 inch groups. I hand load my own ammo, so that helps a bit. Nothing spectacular. Just a decent, accurate rig at a reasonable cost. The guys I go hunting with can all shoot the same sort of groups with the rifle. We all practice a lot during the year, and this helps our shooting. I am sure a lot of guys here are a lot better. For the hunting we do, our shooting is fine.

I would not use The Modern Hunter for hunting big game. I can see the gun's application in shooting large numbers of targets...this does not apply to a big game hunting situation.
This is my opinion. It is rather different than your suggestion that I say that all hunters who use semi-autos are slobs.

Shorty asked us for our opinions. I gave him mine. I know a lot of other hunters who feel the way I do about ARs/black guns being used for hunting. I think it takes away a fundamental bit of respect that we hunters should have for the animals we hunt. They are not some enemy you mow down. They are not things we hate. Why use a tool designed for war to hunt them, when we have other options? Why call such a rifle a "Hunting Rig"? It seems rather absurd to me. If you are going to view your quarry as "enemy" and go after it with tools that give you every advantage, then that is not ethical hunting. The animal has to have a chance. It is not like they are evolving at the same rate that we are. You don't see a moose shooting back at you. If we abandon all ties to hunting traditions, where will we be down the track? Maybe in 50 years one of the vendors on this site will be proudly selling the XRC CrittaKilla laser rifle, guaranteed to shoot to point of aim out to infinity, and you get 10,000 rounds out of a 9 volt battery. No worries about wind drift or bullet drop. How long do you think game will last out there if every hunter is equipped with one of these?

The battlefield is different. You have to keep one step ahead of the jerks on the other side trying to kill you. They have guns. They have technology. You throw whatever you can at them. Hunting animals is not like this.

You bring up cost. I would suggest that if you can pay $3000 for a rifle, then good for you, but it is definitely a "high end item".
For this sort of money, you can purchase several rifles, and have rifles that are more suited to the individual situations you might encounter, rather than "one rifle that does it all" (there is no such thing).

I would not dream of turning up at deer camp with this AR. Not in a million years. Shooting a big game animal with it would indeed repulse me, and it would repulse a great many other ethical hunters I know.
If you feel differently, that is fine.

As far as shooting it at the range, I am sure it would be an awesome rifle. Like I said, I might yet buy one.
I have a short barrel VZ 58 that I enjoy shooting at the range a lot. I would never hunt with the thing, even if that were legal.
This is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. You are entitled to yours.

Shorty should know that if he goes hunting with this rig, a lot of hunters he encounters in the woods will not look at him in a favourable light.
I know this.
Most folks here know it too.
Since he asked for an honest opinion, I felt that I should let him know. That is all.
 
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The biggest advantage imo is that the modern hunter rifle is like a non restricted ar-10 that you can legally shoot in the bush and not have to go to a certified range, that's a good enough reason to get one :)

Also, one or two quick follow up shots from a semi auto could be useful in a high stress situation if a bear or some other big game animal turned and charged you
 
Billabong said:
Did I say that people who hunt with semis are bad hunters? No. What I said was that if you are gonna drop $3000 on a rifle that is heavier, less reliable and likely less accurate than one you can buy for under $1500, then you must have some sort of a reason. The only advantage you get with this gun in a big game hunting situation is to help with your "spray and pray" shooting, which is not acceptable. If there is some other advantage, please let me know what that is.

I have a Tikka Stainless bolt, in 7mm/08. It cost me under $1500 with a Nikon scope on it. It shoots 1/2 MOA all day long from a rest. Kneeling, with a sling, I get 1.5 inch groups with it. Prone, 1 inch groups. I hand load my own ammo, so that helps a bit. Nothing spectacular. Just a decent, accurate rig at a reasonable cost. The guys I go hunting with can all shoot the same sort of groups with the rifle. We all practice a lot during the year, and this helps our shooting. I am sure a lot of guys here are a lot better. For the hunting we do, our shooting is fine.

I would not use The Modern Hunter for hunting big game. I can see the gun's application in shooting large numbers of targets...this does not apply to a big game hunting situation.
This is my opinion. It is rather different than your suggestion that I say that all hunters who use semi-autos are slobs.

Shorty asked us for our opinions. I gave him mine. I know a lot of other hunters who feel the way I do about ARs/black guns being used for hunting. I think it takes away a fundamental bit of respect that we hunters should have for the animals we hunt. They are not some enemy you mow down. They are not things we hate. Why use a tool designed for war to hunt them, when we have other options? Why call such a rifle a "Hunting Rig"? It seems rather absurd to me. If you are going to view your quarry as "enemy" and go after it with tools that give you every advantage, then that is not ethical hunting. The animal has to have a chance. It is not like they are evolving at the same rate that we are. You don't see a moose shooting back at you. If we abandon all ties to hunting traditions, where will we be down the track? Maybe in 50 years one of the vendors on this site will be proudly selling the XRC CrittaKilla laser rifle, guaranteed to shoot to point of aim out to infinity, and you get 10,000 rounds out of a 9 volt battery. No worries about wind drift or bullet drop. How long do you think game will last out there if every hunter is equipped with one of these?

The battlefield is different. You have to keep one step ahead of the jerks on the other side trying to kill you. They have guns. They have technology. You throw whatever you can at them. Hunting animals is not like this.

You bring up cost. I would suggest that if you can pay $3000 for a rifle, then good for you, but it is definitely a "high end item".
For this sort of money, you can purchase several rifles, and have rifles that are more suited to the individual situations you might encounter, rather than "one rifle that does it all" (there is no such thing).

I would not dream of turning up at deer camp with this AR. Not in a million years. Shooting a big game animal with it would indeed repulse me, and it would repulse a great many other ethical hunters I know.
If you feel differently, that is fine.

As far as shooting it at the range, I am sure it would be an awesome rifle. Like I said, I might yet buy one.
I have a short barrel VZ 58 that I enjoy shooting at the range a lot. I would never hunt with the thing, even if that were legal.
This is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. You are entitled to yours.

Shorty should know that if he goes hunting with this rig, a lot of hunters he encounters in the woods will not look at him in a favourable light.
I know this.
Most folks here know it too.
Since he asked for an honest opinion, I felt that I should let him know. That is all.
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I also wouldn't use a gun like this to hunt big game, but it sure as hell wouldn't bother me if someone else did. Your rant is fraught with irony and contradictions but I guess you can't see that from your elevated elitist pedestal. How is using a scoped 7mm not represent a tool that gives you every advantage? How does it give the animal a fair chance? Hunting traditions? I suggest you either sharpen your arrowhead and start practicing those spear throws or quit being supercilious.
 
The idea that the type of gun you use equates to the amount of respect you have for the game you hunt is one of the most ludicrous notions I've ever heard.

Shortly followed by the idea that wood and blued metal bolt guns were designed that way to respect the game.

Would you and your band of "ethical hunters" look down at someone hunting big game with a browning BAR?

How about a duck/goose hunter using any semi-auto benelli? most of which are derived from their combat shotgun designs.

What are the bounds of your fudd-ity?
 
Billabong said:
To me, the concept of using a gun like this for hunting is rather repulsive.
I respect the game I hunt, I don't view it like an enemy, and hunting to me is a completely different thing than shooting up Taliban a$$holes.
To use a weapon like this to shoot a deer or a moose would be a disrespectful way to hunt (in my opinion).
Having a 10 round clip in a big game gun is rather ridiculous to me...if you need that many rounds to hit the animal, you should not be out there hunting in the first place.
If you don't need that many rounds, then why lug it around with you in the woods all day?
So, I would not pick a gun like this for hunting.
Lots of folks out there will disagree with me, and that is fine.
They have their opinion, I have mine.
If you don't have a problem going hunting with an AR, then go for it.
I would enjoy a gun like this on the range, and that is about it.
For home defense, I use my 12 gauge. If you have a big property and are genuinely worried about zombies invading your place, then this gun might also suit you for that purpose...
I hope we don't follow the Americans down this path where every other deer/moose/bear gun in the woods is an AR...I think it will be rather sad if that happens. The traditional hunting rifles with their fine wood and metalwork were designed that way for a reason-respect for the game you hunt and respect for the tools you use in doing so.
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Hey troll, go away, no one gives a rats ass what you have to say.

Your not even worthy of a decent response from anyone on here.
 
Billabong said:
The traditional hunting rifles with their fine wood and metalwork were designed that way for a reason-respect for the game you hunt and respect for the tools you use in doing so.
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This is one of the stupidest statements I've ever read on this form. You must be one of three things, a troll, a twelve year old or, someone who has never hunted before.
 
Well.. My favourite hunting rifle is a surplus 6.5 swede that I bought "sporterized" (synthetic stock, included a cheeeeeeeep scope and mounts, shortened and crowned muzzle, no iron sights) in New Zealand, for about $NZ450. When I brought it back to Canada I upgraded the stock to a surplus piece of wood that Milarm had in one of its barrels for about $20. I've knocked down more deer and, in New Zealand, goats, than any other rifle I've owned except the muzzle-loader I used to hunt deer with in Sask. And it's less than MOA.

That said, I'd love to have a Modern Hunter for deer, if only because where there are deer, there are animals who like to eat the deer and don't necessarily like people getting in the way... Would another firearm do it? Sure. Accuracy? I've fired a 1MOA semi-auto Galil with a 20 rd mag (way back when you could own that sort of thing in Canada) - it WAS a military rifle, semi-auto. Would I hunt with it? Probably not, largely because of the weight - speshully now that I'm getting to be old and weak.
I don't suspect that the guys at ATRS are going to all this design and development work to build a rifle that won't shoot (and I mean that in the TR sense, if it won't shoot very small and consistent groups, might as well start over).

There goes Sunday - off to work for a few hours.
 
Let's talk about ethics.

Scoped bolt actions are not good for follow-up shots since you lose sight picture when reloading.

Animals don't always drop on the first shot. I was on a hunt with some bolt action hunters a few years ago. Close to dark, a jungle carbine took dropped one. The other hunter hit one with a .270 Weatherby. The muzzle break and concussion rang his bell and he only got one shot off. That deer was not recovered.

I use an xcr-l in 6.8 spc for short range hunting. I can see using a v2.0 MH in 7mm-08 with a Troy compensator in the future. I can also see selling my xcr and one or two other rifles to fund this purchase.

An initial shot with the ability for a quick follow-up shot sounds ethical to me.
 
You keep talking about an advantage and then cost and having separate firearms for hunting and the range.

Isn't having one rifle that you can have fun with at the range and then also use to hunt with not an advantage? Doesn't that also save you money not having to buy two seperate guns? Does not having a dedicated hunting rifle somehow disrespect game?

Who cares what the cost is. If you can't afford it don't buy it. It's the same as saying buying a Porsche is pointless because you can get several Kias that will get you from point a to b with better fuel economy.
 
If you've ever been charged by a bull moose a semi-auto big game gun is exactly what you want, I have and I want one. Mind you in hunting moose for past 27years this was the only time I've been charged..oh well, I still want one.
 
Dr. Hunter said:
And how did it shoot?
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Great! I have to say I haven't had time to do any shooting for about 8 months so this was a treat, thanks Rick! I only had time to shoot 5 rounds at 50 yards (indoor range). Trigger was smooth and crisp. Here is the result, I can't wait to get some time in the saddle with her so I can improve my accuracy!



 
polskiogorki said:
Hey troll, go away, no one gives a rats ass what you have to say.

Your not even worthy of a decent response from anyone on here.
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Agreed.
Respecting game and taking animals humanely and ethically has nothing to do with the colour of a firearm or how much wood and blued steel it has. The notion that hunting with a semi-auto black rifle somehow turns "game" into the "enemy" has got to be one of the narrowest points of view I've witnessed on CGN in a while.

Respectfully Billabong, you are entitled to your opinion and no one will argue that....it's when you pass judgement on others based on narrow mindedness or arrogance that people, such as myself, take exception.
 
I agree that in certain situations, having a couple of quick follow up shots would be a good thing.
I have hunted for 14 years. I have never been charged by a bear or any other angry critter.
It makes little sense to me to lug around a gun like this for the next 20 years just in case I get charged by something.

If you look at where you are most likely going to be charged by a nasty animal, it would be in Africa. Do you see a lot of folks using ARs over there? I don't. Sure, the poachers use them to slaughter elephants, etc, but the professional hunters use bolt guns or double barrels. If the AR were the ultimate thing to save you from a charging critter, you would have to ask yourself why they are not being used in Africa. I would suggest that weight and reliability as well as hunting traditions would be the top of the list.
 
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