The nail was hit squarely on the head here, good advice from someone who has the knowledge based on experience.
600 yard MOA Moose rifle build - 300 WSM or 300 WIN Mag? Sako/Tikka/Weatherby/Kimber?
- Thread starter Mudduck
- Start date
The nail was hit squarely on the head here, good advice from someone who has the knowledge based on experience.
Yes this is correct I get 2950 out of a crono
but on any ballistic calculator when I validate the data out to a 1000
i have to run the speed at 3050 and this is through 3-4 ballistic calculators
and there's 4 of us running this same round were all getting the same results
so yes I'm getting 2950 out of the crono
6 ft away from my muzzle but validated data says possible at the muzzele is closer to 3000 and change
but on any ballistic calculator when I validate the data out to a 1000
i have to run the speed at 3050 and this is through 3-4 ballistic calculators
and there's 4 of us running this same round were all getting the same results
so yes I'm getting 2950 out of the crono
6 ft away from my muzzle but validated data says possible at the muzzele is closer to 3000 and change
This makes no "sense" to me. What is "validated data" from a ballistics calculator (or 3-4 of them for that matter)?
There is no such thing as "the same gun". You are making your hole deeper with every post.
This is how you deliberately load your ammunition?? Really?
You are either making all this garbage up out of your head and some "ballistic calculators", or you are doing stupid, dangerous stuff. Either way, you should be ignored, and any inexperienced shooters on these forums should be clearly warned.
sharp shooter
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I thought i read somewhere that the 300 H&H was better at longer ranges…just a thought
All of this discussion of rifles and cartridges for 600-yard shooting makes me chuckle.
I don't have any problem hitting V-ring bullseyes at 600 metres with a .30-06 or .300 Winchester Magnum that is properly set up. In fact, my hunting rifle is a plain old Sako L61R Finnbear in .300 Winchester Magnum pushing a plain old 180-grain Nosler Accubond at 3,050, and it is easily capable of bringing down any moose at 600 metres.
In reality, 600 is not that far. If you seriously want to shoot 800 or 1,000+, then maybe go for one of the Ultramags or .338 Lapua, etc. But inside 600, a .300 Winchester will do fine, and even a properly loaded .30-06 is plenty good enough, as long as you are a competent shooter and your load will shoot better than 1 m.o.a. for the first three shots, day in, day out.
As for rifles, I can hit Vs at 600 with my "piece of crap" P17 (which gives me my nickname) with an ER Shaw barrel. You only need a heavy barrel if you intend to shoot long strings with it. My Sako has a light barrel and it is good for three shots. That is my standard for hunting rifles. If I can get good accuracy and consistency out of the first three shots, that is what I need. That principle should apply to shooting game at 25 yards and 600: if you can't do it in three shots, you shouldn't be doing it in those conditions.
Other than that, use whatever rifle is reliable and accurate. A used Rem 700 BDL, Savage or Winchester could be fine for 600 yard shooting, as long as you set it up properly and use a decent load, including a good long-range hunting bullet, with a reputation for consistent penetration and expansion under all conditions. That's all there is to it.
I don't have any problem hitting V-ring bullseyes at 600 metres with a .30-06 or .300 Winchester Magnum that is properly set up. In fact, my hunting rifle is a plain old Sako L61R Finnbear in .300 Winchester Magnum pushing a plain old 180-grain Nosler Accubond at 3,050, and it is easily capable of bringing down any moose at 600 metres.
In reality, 600 is not that far. If you seriously want to shoot 800 or 1,000+, then maybe go for one of the Ultramags or .338 Lapua, etc. But inside 600, a .300 Winchester will do fine, and even a properly loaded .30-06 is plenty good enough, as long as you are a competent shooter and your load will shoot better than 1 m.o.a. for the first three shots, day in, day out.
As for rifles, I can hit Vs at 600 with my "piece of crap" P17 (which gives me my nickname) with an ER Shaw barrel. You only need a heavy barrel if you intend to shoot long strings with it. My Sako has a light barrel and it is good for three shots. That is my standard for hunting rifles. If I can get good accuracy and consistency out of the first three shots, that is what I need. That principle should apply to shooting game at 25 yards and 600: if you can't do it in three shots, you shouldn't be doing it in those conditions.
Other than that, use whatever rifle is reliable and accurate. A used Rem 700 BDL, Savage or Winchester could be fine for 600 yard shooting, as long as you set it up properly and use a decent load, including a good long-range hunting bullet, with a reputation for consistent penetration and expansion under all conditions. That's all there is to it.
I shot a F Class rifle with a 30" 6.5x55 barrel. It got 3050fps with 142 SMK. 2 scoops of RL22.
It shot well to 1200 yards. But known distance shooting with 2 sighting shots is very different than hunting. I would not want to have to guarantee my first shot would hit a dinner plate at any distance beyond 500 yards.
Given how tough elk are, I wonder about the long distance kills. How long are your yards?
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So, we've established what sunray has to offer to these threads, what he is here for is not necessarily to give advice, but be entertained, it took me a couple threads to catch this as well.
300 WM at 600 yards, 180 grain accubonds will be moving aprox 2033 fps, and carry 1652 ft-lbs of energy, lets compare to:
30-30 win at 100 yards, 170 grain accubond will be moving aprox 1925 fps and carry 1398 ft-lbs of energy.
Nough said?
As to hunting at that distance, I would consider it long range shooting, has much less to do with hunting, but it's nice to know you can, and fun to work to getting to the point where you do feel capable of doing this.
300 WM at 600 yards, 180 grain accubonds will be moving aprox 2033 fps, and carry 1652 ft-lbs of energy, lets compare to:
30-30 win at 100 yards, 170 grain accubond will be moving aprox 1925 fps and carry 1398 ft-lbs of energy.
Nough said?
As to hunting at that distance, I would consider it long range shooting, has much less to do with hunting, but it's nice to know you can, and fun to work to getting to the point where you do feel capable of doing this.
True ... But if I really wanted to save myself problems and money ... I would just go to the butcher and purchase beef! LolI think you should try to get a bit closer to Bullwinkle.
It would save a lot of problems and money
Not an issue for hunting. Target shooting I can see some problems related with consistency, but you have all of the time needed to deal with it at firing lane.
Killing zone on the moose is 8 inches. This jig will get you there consistently at ranges up to 600 m effortlessly. Scope being only limitation.
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If you are considering shooting further, even for practice, don't limit yourself by going with a 30caliber. My brother is $4500 into a 300WM that should have been a 338, but too much money gone to start again (he wouldn't listen to me at the beginning).
I mean no disrespect here, because I'm sure your brother has his reasons, but I can't imagine why you would need to put that kind of money into a rifle if you want to shoot 1,000 yards. I could build a Palma rifle for 1,000 yard shooting, with a Barnard action and an Eliseo stock, Krieger barrel, etc., for $1,000 less than that, and be in the company of the world champion shooters. I know this because I know some world champion shooters and I know what they use.
I reiterate: you don't need to spend crazy amounts of cash these days to get an accurate rifle that is capable of shooting well out to 1,000 yards. Heck, Savage even makes an off-the-shelf model in .300 Winchester Magnum or .338 Lapua that could hold its own against most custom long range rifles in the world, and I believe it can be had for under $1,500 (and certainly under $2,000), all in. The rest comes down to the guy behind the trigger, his optics and his handload.
Been following this for a bit, this kind of sounds like a build I am currently on.
300winmag, 26inch fluted heavy barrel, SWFA 10x, all in I have under $1100 with optics
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1045977-Rifle-build-with-optics-on-a-1200-1500-budget-(-1080spent-rounds-at-600m)
It's becoming my go to rifle, weight is just over 10lbs with optics,ammo and a bipod. With the great 5 shot groups with 200gr AB and 210 LRAB I can see this becoming a great long range hunter. Have made hits at 1000m on steel already. This weekend it will be in my hands for deer so will see...
It's original intent was just a precision rifle but I seem to leave my dedicated hunting rifles at home sense this build
Hope this helps/ tags it for me
300winmag, 26inch fluted heavy barrel, SWFA 10x, all in I have under $1100 with optics
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1045977-Rifle-build-with-optics-on-a-1200-1500-budget-(-1080spent-rounds-at-600m)
It's becoming my go to rifle, weight is just over 10lbs with optics,ammo and a bipod. With the great 5 shot groups with 200gr AB and 210 LRAB I can see this becoming a great long range hunter. Have made hits at 1000m on steel already. This weekend it will be in my hands for deer so will see...
It's original intent was just a precision rifle but I seem to leave my dedicated hunting rifles at home sense this build
Hope this helps/ tags it for me
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