So basically you go down from a respectable 30-06 class energy (Federal 1 1/4 oz slug @1560 fps should be about 2955 ft lb) to 223 one with 8.5" (1 1/4 oz @1100 fps or 1469 ft lb)...I had not heard anyone recommending using a hot 223 for bears...
8.5" 12ga vs bear
- Thread starter popcanhunter
- Start date
So basically you go down from a respectable 30-06 class energy (Federal 1 1/4 oz slug @1560 fps should be about 2955 ft lb) to 223 one with 8.5" (1 1/4 oz @1100 fps or 1469 ft lb)...I had not heard anyone recommending using a hot 223 for bears...
The "factory" figures are from a long barrel, which generate much higher velocities with slugs than even a typical 18-20" defensive gun barrel.
The lower velocity well be a good thing, at least at short ranges though, as "soft" slugs at least can fail rather dramatically if they impact faster than their limited structural integrity can handle.
I've seen them severely underpenetrate or even flatten out into a disk and "frisbee" out the side of the target.
Anyways, shotguns are effective moreso because of mass and momentum than energy, IMO.
I am curious how many people asking if a slug will kill a bear...even actually seen one in the wild? Or live or even frequent where bears are more then a weekend a year at a rented cottage surrounded by 100s of other cottages? LOL
I hope you're not recommending a .223 for bears. That would be stupid. A 12 ga. slug with similar energy however performs very different with almost 500 grains more weight behind it. Velocity is not the only factor. If a cyclist hits the side of your house at 25 km/h he will hurt himself and maybe damage your siding. If a fully loaded logging truck hits the side of your house at 25 km/h you're homeless. Same velocity but the heavier one f**ked your life. Noteable difference. Check out Brobee's shotgun penetration tests on YouTube and shotgunworld. At full velocity the Federals stand a good chance of fragmentating and giving up penetration.
G.Mitchell
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Grande Prairie Alberta
I spend a lot of time in bear country, however I have never faced one in any way.
Carrying a gun in the woods is wise up here. However I likely will never need it though.
Carrying a gun in the woods is wise up here. However I likely will never need it though.
G.Mitchell
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Grande Prairie Alberta
why?
because you think only experienced bear encounterers should be asking about what to do in the event of a bear encounter?
that dont make NO sense. those who have encountered bears lots would already know what to do, and those who havent should be the ones asking.
he was talking energy, not velocity.
to equal the energy a truck at 25km/hr contains, a bicycle would have to be going so fast it could penetrate your brick wall and kill you, due to its DRASTICALLY reduced mass.
Wrong, the bicycle would fragmentate and blow an 18 ft wide, 2 ft deep hole in the side of your house. It would rattle some things off your coffee table. That's why they say you should wear a helmet. Neither energy nor velocity alone make an ideal or even useful number for a projectile. To compare numbers while ignoring very important details is not intelligent. .223 is not well suited to heavy bone. Soft 12 ga. rifled slugs are, especially at reduced velocity. At 1100 fps there is not much risk of fragmentation and 547 grains delivers very deep penetration through tough medium. Driving a 55 gr .223 bullet fast enough to match the energy of a 547 gr .730" slug does not make the two equal or the argument that one is basically the other. There is hoards of test data to back that up.
I am saying for the amount of threads on this subject one starts to wonder...
Slugs are commonly used for hunting bears IF a shotgun is what one is allowed or choosing to use...so why wouldn't it be okay for those RARE "what ifs"?
Use high end slugs, ones MADE for big game that penetrate well and not the $6/5 round box from Canadian Tire. Use them both in a gun that you are comfortable using and familiar with...something that holds more then 2-4 rounds like SxS or O/U or a super shorty does is ideal...may be longer and heavier YES but you have more rounds and the recoil is less making for faster follow up shots and the swing IS better on them. Be smart and aware and carry bells on your pack on you if your not hunting and you should be okay. If you see a bear at a distance you can always keep eyes on it, and make ready with your gun all well going out of you way to AVOID it!!! Again...how many bear attacks happen a year? (and remember you gotta BE in bear country for a BEAR attack to have a chance of happening!!!)
Lastly...a longer and heavier gun gives you a better club!!!
I am saying for the amount of threads on this subject one starts to wonder...
Slugs are commonly used for hunting bears IF a shotgun is what one is allowed or choosing to use...so why wouldn't it be okay for those RARE "what ifs"?
Use high end slugs, ones MADE for big game that penetrate well and not the $6/5 round box from Canadian Tire. Use them both in a gun that you are comfortable using and familiar with...something that holds more then 2-4 rounds like SxS or O/U or a super shorty does is ideal...may be longer and heavier YES but you have more rounds and the recoil is less making for faster follow up shots and the swing IS better on them. Be smart and aware and carry bells on your pack on you if your not hunting and you should be okay. If you see a bear at a distance you can always keep eyes on it, and make ready with your gun all well going out of you way to AVOID it!!! Again...how many bear attacks happen a year? (and remember you gotta BE in bear country for a BEAR attack to have a chance of happening!!!)
Lastly...a longer and heavier gun gives you a better club!!!
Just out of curiosity what type of slug would you reccomend? I have been told that brenneke KO slugs are the bomb but I have never even seen them in person.
Brenneke's are cast of a harder alloy and feature a raised nose rather than hollow point to minimize expansion and reduce (but pretty much eliminate) fragmentation at higher impact velocities. The end result is a slug that can handle hitting soft targets at magnum velocities and hold together for very deep penetration and some serious wounds in really big animals. Rifled slugs are for deer, Brenneke's are for everything including but not limited to: deer, moose, bear, trucks, airplanes, giant squid, kittens etc.
Brenneke makes great slugs...hare to find tho. Rottweil makes some great slugs...easier to find and same "style" as Brenneke I believe (made in the same place as the Brenneke brand slugs I THINK). The whole thing is a tad confusing but my point is both make good slugs, just buy them from the right line as they make many different types of slugs for different uses.
Federal has some nice stuff, their "TruBall Rifled Slug" I have READ good things about, never personally used tho but my father and uncle both use and love their "Trophy Copper Slug".
I am sure Hornady makes some nice ones too.
You are wanting a slug that can PENETRATE as well as expand (some)...most slugs out there are soft lead...take one a part a hit it slightly with a hammer and see...and will not hold together and go as deep as a nice Brenneke or copper slug will. These slugs do cost more but they perform much better on big/dangerous game!!! Most have a bit more bang to them as well
Federal has some nice stuff, their "TruBall Rifled Slug" I have READ good things about, never personally used tho but my father and uncle both use and love their "Trophy Copper Slug".
I am sure Hornady makes some nice ones too.
You are wanting a slug that can PENETRATE as well as expand (some)...most slugs out there are soft lead...take one a part a hit it slightly with a hammer and see...and will not hold together and go as deep as a nice Brenneke or copper slug will. These slugs do cost more but they perform much better on big/dangerous game!!! Most have a bit more bang to them as well
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Amazing how the best posts in the thread were ignored.
Read these if you're actually serious about it.
Read these if you're actually serious about it.
