8.5" 12ga vs bear
- Thread starter popcanhunter
- Start date
I don't want to sound too prejudice but there exists certain brews that, bless their brewmaster's souls, should be shot. Again, hate me if you want I just can't love em all.
I like 12-14" barrels with a surefire forend. No snags from a vertical grip coming out of a scabbard or backpack, plenty of shell capacity, no fingers past the muzzle and nice balance for moving targets. Not clays. Still wondering how to strap a light on a 8.5" barrel that will not snag or get hung up in a pack. That minor point keeps getting left out of the discussion.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
These puppies are big:
.454 Casull stopped this one:
That right there is a nightmare bear. Notice how skinny he is, his ribs are clearly showing as is his hip bone. If he attacks you, its not because you've startled him, its not because you've intruded into his personal space, its not because he perceives you as a threat to his food stash, and he's not protecting cubs; that guy will attack you so he can feed. An unarmed response to a bear attack must take the reason for the attack into account, and you have to be right. Due to their normally docile nature, any black bear attack must be considered a predatory attack, and the best defense is to fight back. But fighting back against a grizzly is the wrong thing to do if he's protecting something, or you've encroached upon his personal space, he will continue to attack you until he thinks the threat is neutralized. But a predatory attack by an old, sick, or injured grizzly that cannot feed itself normally must be fought off. If the bear you have to fight off is as big as this one, you're unlikely to survive unless you have a gun, and know how to use it in a worst case scenario.
A stick is the best defense, a dull one is preferred.
The illustration above is dangerous because its made on the generality that back bears attacks are predacious and grizzly attacks are reactive or defensive. Because this illustration fails to take into account the reason for the attack, it could lead to someone responding to a bear attack in an inappropriate manner. If you roll up in a ball to protect yourself from a predatory grizzly attack, in all likelihood you will die.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'm not coming at this from the point of view of whether or not these are cool guns to own and shoot. All guns are cool to own and shoot. My criticism is when the gun is considered in roll of a suitable defensive arm in a dangerous bear scenario. A dangerous bear encounter is beyond scary for those of us who are used to being around these guys, but to the uninitiated its simply terrifying. Your fine motor skills are gone, yet your brain tells you that the gun has to be cycled vigorously in order to be cycled reliably, and if your hands are shaking, slippery with sweat, causing your hand slips off the slide on the forward stroke just as you fire, you'll have more problems than just the bear. A handgun also has a short barrel, but when firing the handgun, your hands are fixed to the grip frame of the gun, and you don't have to move your hand towards the muzzle to initiate a subsequent shot, or to chamber a round for the initial shot, if its your habit is to carry a long gun with an empty chamber. The handgun usually caries more than 3 rounds, but of course the comparison is mostly academic as few Canadians are fortunate enough to have an ATC.
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i hear what you are saying boomer and admit i have no experience with bears other than observing them from a safe distance .as for the handgun i agree totally. i am going to bow out of the discussion and leave it to those who live and work around bears .
sub-barn?
Of all the times I've encountered bears I've only really been scared twice, once when a friend and I had one seemingly stalking us in very dense hilly terrain, and once where I was jogging down a trail in a fairly busy urban park when a bear cub emerges from dense brush and plops itself down on the grass maybe 40 feet from me, otherwise it wasn't such a big deal.
The really short shotguns need to have some kind of substantial handstop or vertical grip installed as a given if you're going to be carrying one defensively.
I actually find them pretty shootable, once you get used to them, aside from the atomic muzzle blast. I'd hate to have to shoot one without hearing protection, especially in a confined space....
The really short shotguns need to have some kind of substantial handstop or vertical grip installed as a given if you're going to be carrying one defensively.
I actually find them pretty shootable, once you get used to them, aside from the atomic muzzle blast. I'd hate to have to shoot one without hearing protection, especially in a confined space....
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I can't speak to the availability of a vertical forend grips, but a Pic rail attached to the factory forend with a flashlight attached to it with a scope ring might provide a sufficient hand stop. The shoulder stock cannot be collapsible or be replaced with a pistol grip only without bringing the gun under the minimum 26" length.
The Dominion Arms short barrel shotguns for the most part need sight improvements made by the purchaser as they are not good to go out of the box.
Beyond fun at the range or a need to keep the gun as small as possible for specialty use (breeching doors and then transitioning to a different gun) the very short shotguns are not very practical. They are not much smaller, don't weigh noticeably less, hold less ammo, and require custom forends.
The 12.5 or 14" models make a lot more sense in the real world for most people.
Beyond fun at the range or a need to keep the gun as small as possible for specialty use (breeching doors and then transitioning to a different gun) the very short shotguns are not very practical. They are not much smaller, don't weigh noticeably less, hold less ammo, and require custom forends.
The 12.5 or 14" models make a lot more sense in the real world for most people.
Ask and you shall have it. Those Americans. And yes finger on trigger. Also Red Jacket Firearms ( under new control now ) made one in episode two last season.
