18 vs 24" barrel UPDATE: Got it!

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Roddy

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Hello. I am new to precision rifles and gave up on my last build because it wasn't working out. I am interested in a new rifle, specifically an SSG 3000. I love the looks of them, the value, and the features, plus it will go well with my Sig handguns. I thought it was a bit heavy but 12 pounds is lighter than PGW or AI rifles.

One thing I would like to have is a more compact rifle for carrying on a snow mobile or moving in and out of the truck with. The SSG doesn't have a folding stock so I am considering the 18" version instead of the 24". I am sure this has been debated to death but do you lose much accuracy out to say 500 meters with a 6" shorter barrel? That is about as far as I would shoot. The rifle will mostly be for coyotes or just having fun and I don't have much longer distances than that I can shoot.

What do you guys think, about the barrel length or rifle in general? Also where can I buy magazines for the rifle? I can't find them anywhere.
 
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It isn't accuracy you lose (unless you are using iron sights) ... it's velocity you lose when you shorten 6 inches... and it varies on cartridge.
 
Well it's a .308 and it will be going to 500 yards. Will the velocity change really matter? I think the 18" barrel was offered with suppressors in mind. It doesn't come with a brake like the 24" just a thread protector. I want it so I have a more compact rifle.
 
The 18" barrel was offered for it's supposed coolness. Bit less cumbersome when hunting, but the velocity loss negates that.
Contact these guys for a mag. They're a SIG dealer.
The Shooting Edge
BAY #4
510-77TH AVE. ,
CALGARY, AB,
403-720-4867
 
You're going to give up somewhere between 100fps to 150fps with a 18 vs 24" barrel from what I've seen. It depends on bullets, powder, etc. You probably won't be able to notice much accuracy difference between the two. I know the shorter one is stiffer but the difference that makes is likely negligible. The velocity difference is real. I'll put it to you this way, if 150fps didn't matter everyone shooting a 300WM would be shooting a 30-06, those shooting a 30-06 would be shooting a 308, those shooting a 308 would be shooting a 303, etc. Of course, the velocity matters less at shorter ranges, and is definitely beneficial if you plan to stretch it out there. I know 500 yards isn't exactly "long" range but velocity will certainly help. With my current load @ 500 yards an extra 150 fps gives me 2 inches less wind drift and 7 inches less drop. Food for thought, this is of course my opinion and YMMV.
 
I cut a medium heavy target rifle barrel back to 20" and put it in a hunting rifle stock. It works well. Accuracy at close range is just fine. have not shot it beyond 600 yds.

Two things to consider:

It might be painfully loud. One reason why I went with 20"

The bore may not be concentric with the outside of the barrel. If you cut the barrel the muzzle might be offside. This can cause issues.
 
I believe it goes:

0-10 point blank
10-100 close range
100-300 med range
300-500 long range
500-1000 extended long range
anything past 1000 is 'extreme' long range lol.

I'm totally joking man, I have no idea how ranges are classified this is just what I have read some magazines and again, I AM JOKING. Now to OP's question:

What you give up... Velocity - this may ultimately result in a lack of a couple of things, less velocity and ultimately less penetration if you plan on hunting with it. As some have said you will have greater environmental effects on a slower bullet i.e. increased drop and wind drift as stated above.

What you gain... A little tiny accuracy, if you're a superb shot you will notice that a shorter barrel is more accurate (I assume what's going on, is since the barrel is shorter the nodes are shorter therefore the barrel is less whippy and you will have tighter groups).

Also this is always one of the "HOT topics" lol. There are two sides to this argument and everyone has an opinion on this as it has been discussed at length on a few other threads. It's kinda liking asking the following:

What rifles are better Remington or Savage
walk in to a comic book store and ask in a loud voice "Who is the best super hero and why?"
walk in to a car show and ask who is better dodge or ford? etc. lol. (I'm not trying to make waves I am just pointing out the equivalent of what OP has posted).

Also back to your original question, I think you would be fine with an 18 308. I personally plan on rebarreling my 308 someday to something a little shorter as well. Nothing nicer than having a small package for when you go out of town as huge ass rifle cases can be a huge pain in the arse. I hope that helps man.
 
I appreciate everyone's input. If Sig made a 20" barrel or a folding stock this would be a non issue. I just think 18" is a bit short as you guys have pointed out and noise would be an issue as well. I can get 2" less length with a thread protector instead of a flash hider so I may get the 24" (23.5" is what it actually measures I think).

Does anyone have anything bad to say about this specific rifle? Seems like a good deal and a solid gun.
 
24? I thought 30" was a bit short these days. I guess I work on too many TR guns with irons. I must admit that not too many matches are won around here with short barrels (none that I am aware of) in F class and that includes 24. The other way to look at it is once you cut it off it's a bugger to put back on but if you are set on it do some chrono work before and after. A friend had a barrel that was a mile off on the twist (his fault, an Engineer) so we cut off 6" with a hack saw and crowned it with a counter sink in a drill, he wanted to see the velocity difference. I don't remember what that was but it did actually shoot better.
 
The ssg is a very nice rifle! Mine is very accurate, great trigger, I like the safety set up. Bolt is the smoothest I have used.

The gun is very heavy, recoil is low but it would be a pig to pack around for very long I think.
 
Velocity and accuracy are not the same, but they are definitely linked.

If you remove all possible variables such as wind, on a perfect day you can achieve the same accuracy out of a slower velocity than you can out of a faster velocity rifle (18 vs 24" barrel). The 18 barrel with the slower velocity will have a higher arc, but that can be accounted for by dialing in and properly marking your scope.

However, in the real world, variables do matter, and those things are reduced by a higher velocity, so accuracy does improve. First, you have to correct high/low much less because your round has a flatter trajectory, but second, if you have a cross wind, not only will it push a slow bullet more than a fast bullet, the slow bullet will be in the air longer so it is doubly affected.

If you're just punching paper then the advantages end there, but if you actually plan on hunting, the list of advantages gets even longer with a higher velocity. Not only will the accuracy results from above result in a higher probability of hitting the vital area you're aiming at, higher velocities give exponentially higher lethality in terms of energy on target. Bullets don't just make a small hole that tunnel nicely through flesh, that is just the permanent wound channel. The higher velocity, the greater the temporary wound channel, which is kind of like a really high speed jello jiggling or water rippling type of effect that radiates out circularly from the path of the round. A slow bullet just goes through, a fast bullet goes through and creates a shockwave through the body that is more likely to turn out the lights immediately.

I could go on longer, but the ballistic experts know more than I do. Just Google things like permanent and temporary would channel, or "Fackler velocity".
 
Again thank you for all the info. I am still not seeing any mags for sale in Canada and that may be a deciding factor. I will be using it for hunting but probably just coyotes.
 
24" Remington 5r compared to my 18" MacLennan barrel in .308 with the same ammo was 100fps difference. For compact the 18" barrel is great and you will have zero issue at 500+ yards
 
Here's an interesting article on barrel length. A little dated (April 2000) but I think the points are valid.

http: //www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

..."During the development of the Tango 51, Tac Ops took a standard 26-inch barrel and cut it down to 18 inches in one-inch increments. Between 10 to 20 rounds were fired at each increment. They found that a 20-inch barrel provides for a complete propellant burn and no velocity loss when using Federal Match 168-grain BTHP, a cartridge that has become something of a law enforcement standard. Going to an 18-inch barrel only resulted in a loss of 32 feet per second (fps)."...
 
I have a 308 - 18" bolt gun and 500m is no problem for it. I can get out to a 1000 but that is more work in the wind etc. The 18" would be great for the Quad or Sled and still can be very accurate! A folding chassis would help with use on the sled etc. My vote is for a PGW with the chassis, but I am biased ;)
 
1ShotKing said:
You're going to give up somewhere between 100fps to 150fps with a 18 vs 24" barrel from what I've seen. It depends on bullets, powder, etc. You probably won't be able to notice much accuracy difference between the two. I know the shorter one is stiffer but the difference that makes is likely negligible. The velocity difference is real. I'll put it to you this way, if 150fps didn't matter everyone shooting a 300WM would be shooting a 30-06, those shooting a 30-06 would be shooting a 308, those shooting a 308 would be shooting a 303, etc. Of course, the velocity matters less at shorter ranges, and is definitely beneficial if you plan to stretch it out there. I know 500 yards isn't exactly "long" range but velocity will certainly help. With my current load @ 500 yards an extra 150 fps gives me 2 inches less wind drift and 7 inches less drop. Food for thought, this is of course my opinion and YMMV.
Click to expand...

if your handloading the loss can be minimized with a mediumish burning powder vs slow burning depending on cartridge obv.
 
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