SKS and Milsurp Rifle Accuracy

Ganderite

Ganderite

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 99.7%
355   1   0
Location
Farm south of North Bay
I have been trying to improve the accuracy of a pair of SKS rifles by bedding them. It seems every SKS reported here on CGN groups around 2” – except mine.

So far results have been dismal. No real improvement in group size. They average about 5” at 100 yards.

So I got to thinking. Maybe 5” is all I can expect from an SKS with milsurp ammo. Maybe other milsurps don’t do any better, either. While I have shot most of my rifles, they have been shot under different conditions and with different ammo (usually handloads). So I decided to shoot a bunch of them at the same time, at 100 yards, off the bench, with milsurp ammo.

Today was the day. I had to shoot quickly because of an engagement at noon. Did not have time to include the Garand and the Ross in the test.

The rifles were:


In 7.62x39

Norinco Bush Ranger
IMG_0839.jpg


Scoped Chinese Military SKS
Norinco SKS - Peep Sight

7.62x54R

Polish M44 (no pic)

Mosin Nagant (irons)
IMG_0840.jpg

SVT (irons)
IMG_0843.jpg

MN Sniper (scope)
IMG_0844.jpg


303Brit

#4T


I shot 10 rounds out of each rifle, fairly quickly. This heated barrels more than I should have, but I was in a hurry.

My old eyes don’t work with open sights very well, but my shooting glasses gave me a good focus on the front sight, and I had a big black rectangle for an aiming mark. Results were better than I expected. The M44 and SVT have a modified notch in the rear sight. I ran a square cut needle file into the round notch and made a square notch, lightly wider and deeper than the original. This made a big improvement in the sight picture.

I tried to include a previously unfired Russian Refurb SKS in the test, but it missed the paper.

The results were:
7.62x39
Norinco BushRanger 4.76”
Chinese SKS (scope) 5.2” 4.93”
Chinese SKS (peep) 5.7”

7.62x54R
Mosin Nagant 5.75”
Polish M44 4.15” (2.65” without the flyer)
SVT 4.3”
MN Sniper (clone) 4.35”

303Brit
#4T 2.96”

8x57
M98 Mauser 7.5” (very crusty old ammo)

100 yards, off a rest

IMG_0847.jpg

IMG_0852.jpg

IMG_0849.jpg

IMG_0850.jpg



IMG_0854.jpg

IMG_0853.jpg

IMG_0846.jpg

IMG_0851.jpg


IMG_0845.jpg


IMG_0848.jpg


Conclusion: 5" is a fair group for an SKS. Other rifles don't do a lot better.

I was very pleased with the #4T. It felt slick compared to the other rifles and group well.

The big shock (pleasant) was the Polish M44. It shot as well as it looks. And the SVT shot as well, with less recoil. I think I will try pulling the bullets from some ammo and dropping the powder charge 5 grains for M44 fodder.
 
Last edited:
I've have a few SKSs and only one of mine could do 2" at 100 on its best day. I am at the range a lot and mostly I see the guys hammering the 8" pie plates at 50 with their SKSs. I haven't come across any consistent 2" SKSs so far.

With military iron sights it takes a lot of skill, and better eyesight than me, to shoot 2" average groups regardless of what rifle you are using.

Interestingly my best shooter is a really beat up 1953 refurb. The 2 1954 "unissued" ones are only slightly more accurate than a snow shovel.


Below is this morning's effort with a genuine Mosin PU (Molot). Top 2 are 148 gn Bulgarian surplus. The bottom group is 174 gn Sierra HPBT with 44.5 gn of H4895 (aim point is the lower dot). The dot is 1"

xg9k7t.png
[/IMG]
 
Last edited:
My best SKS's are right around 4" @ 100, with the occasional 3" when 5 rds randomly sync their menstrual cycle. My worst put 3 out of 5 rds in a 12" group @ 100. Its was a '50 non chrome that had pits big enough to lose small parts in and no visible rifling at the muzzle. Cosmo can be a real fickle mistress. You think its your friend till you see what its been hiding...
 
Ha. I have a K31, along with brass and dies, but have not yet made any ammo. I am really looking forward to see if it as good as others say.

If it shows promise, I will put a scout scope on it, so my eyes are less of a liability.

I think the most telling group I shot was the BushRanger. It is properly bedded, topped with a good scope, and grouped about the same as the SKS.

I should have included an CZ858. Maybe next time. Add in a Ross and Garand, too.
 
Nice work. I shoot and load for all those calibers as well.


Just one note, Did you mislabel the pic of the "Polish M44"? It looks Russian to me and I've never seen a laminate Polish M44??
 
It also depends on the shooter. With A German K98K and open sights, I was able to get around 2.5-3inch group at 100yards with surplus and with the same gun and higher end ammo like RWS I shot 1 inch group with irons. I also had a decent SKS in the past, that shot really good at 50 yards, approx. 1.5 inch groups with Czech surplus, I never bothered trying it at 100yards on paper since it hit 200yard gong majority of the time. I was also hitting the 350yard gong at my range with no problems with that SKS
 
The grouping with the Bush Ranger is telling.

I have a long running suspicion that the old surplus ammo is one of the biggest knocks against getting great accuracy out of x39 rifles in general. 5" groups with a scoped SKS was about what I could get with surplus ammo. Tinkering with the rifle - shimming the action, removing the bayonet, etc. - brought that down to about 4" - 4&1/2"

With decent quality commercial ammo, I can get it under 3" - but that's about the limit of what I could get out of it.

I picked up a Zastava M85 in 7.62x39 on a Black Friday special. I'm going to scope it and then do some comparison testing. Similar idea to what you've done, only mostly for personal info.

I haven't completely given up on the idea of accurizing the SKS, but until I know for sure what the ammo is capable of doing, it's an uphill battle.
 
I would try groups with the bayo folded, extended, and removed.

3-4" groups is about what I expect from myself with open sights. A few rifles I can do around 2.5", to get close to 2" I need a peep sight.

I'm very skeptical that anyone can get 2" groups on demand with an SKS and open sights.
 
MiG25 said:
I would try groups with the bayo folded, extended, and removed.

3-4" groups is about what I expect from myself with open sights. A few rifles I can do around 2.5", to get close to 2" I need a peep sight.

I'm very skeptical that anyone can get 2" groups on demand with an SKS and open sights.
Click to expand...

There are a number of limits to accuracy:

The rifle. Let's face it, the SKS is not inherently a very accurate rifle.

Open sights. Regardless of the rifle, that is the least accurate sight system.

The ammo. Even in a quality heavy barrel rifle, milsurp ammo has limits.

When you fire 5 rounds of poor ammo from a poor rifle with poor sights, they have to go somewhere. The random distribution sometimes means they land close together, and that group gets added to urban myth as the rifle's accuracy potential for the rest of us. This is why I prefer 10 shot groups. No "lucky" groups.

I built a rifle specifically to test the 7.62x39 milsurp ammo. It shoots handloads under an inch, all day. It has a heavy 20" barrel on a bolt action, topped with a 20X scope.

IMG_0618.jpg


Using this rifle, I was able to conclude that the accuracy potential of milsurp ammo is in the order of 1.5" to 2", for the best lots.

IMG_0635.jpg


IMG_0640.jpg


IMG_0642.jpg


These tests have been going on for a couple years. You can see more at:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/776009-Range-Report-8-different-7-62x39
 
Last edited:
MiG25 said:
I would try groups with the bayo folded, extended, and removed.

3-4" groups is about what I expect from myself with open sights. A few rifles I can do around 2.5", to get close to 2" I need a peep sight.

I'm very skeptical that anyone can get 2" groups on demand with an SKS and open sights.
Click to expand...

It's more like minute of dirt clod @ 50 yds... at least that'/s what the piles of Chicom brass at my range tell me. Like the AK 47, the SKS is reliable and tolerably accurate for it's intended purpose, but trying to tweak it for fine accuracy is the old lipstick on a pig trick.
 
The fact that you got a tighter group with the pole m44 indicates to me that your 91/30 clone may have a bore on the looser side of things. One of the main differences I have seen between infantry rifles and snipers is much tighter dimensions on the sniper. Have you slugged the bore?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom