Need help with value of a Cogswell & harrison SxS 12 gauge

J

johnny1981

Member
Rating - 100%
17   0   0
Location
Yellowknife, NT
I have a Side by side 12 gauge shotgun manufactured by the English maker Cogswell and Harrison, model is The Victor hammerless and I would like to have a better idea of the value as I would like to sell it in the near future.

As stated it is a 12 gauge, The barrels are 30 inches long. The chambers are 2 and a half inches in length.
It has a rare right shoulder cast left master eye stock configuration.

Seems like it was made between 1878 and 1882.
tYJUwU.jpg


hahTYG.jpg


DyWxr5.jpg


There is one small dent in the left barrel as it can be seen in the picture.
sJau5L.jpg

The bores are in excellent condition from what I can tell.
FmkAlB.jpg


The forearm is missing one piece on the right front side, seems like the wood was worn out and it cracked.
15gQUA.jpg

The stock is in good condition with no cracks, there is some scratches and small dents.
0schZo.jpg

jBY9DS.jpg

The opening lever is centered, there is very minimal play in the action both with the forearm on and off.
o2LHpe.jpg

3kTSoB.jpg


It is engraved: Cogswell & Harrison Ltd 141 New Bond St & 226 strand London on top of the shotgun in between the barrels.

gNrOjp.jpg


Serial numbers are matching on the stock, the forearm and barrel flats and it is 108**.

On the barrels flats it says The Victor Hammerless, the serial number is there and it says: C & H, No 761 patent 729.

gHpr1e.jpg

In between the 2 firing pins it says: Pat gas check No 325.

4G8EHL.jpg

Underneath the barrels, where it rest on the barrel flats it says: Nitro proof 1 1/8, crown over V, crown over CP, oz maximum, 12c choke

syoXyH.jpg

The number 23611 is engraved on both barrel.

1LAskt.jpg


The gun seems to be 100% original without any alterations.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
wow that stock sure has a lot of cast off ¨^not sure if that is the right term ."never seen one like that .she is a nice old double but I do not think it is worth a lot .looks to be a wall hanger to me .I would not shoot her with the 2,5 inch chamber , unless you have a smith check her out .I am sure you can get some short shells on line .if only she could talk ,Dutch
 
Me thinks that value will be hard to establish with that cross dominant configuration. Nevertheless, you might consider posting it at Doublegunshop for some info, history and interesting conversation.
O
 
There is no reason it couldn't be shot if it has 2 1/2" chambers. You can buy 2 1/2" shells in Canada from Kent. Or you could cut hulls and reload your own. However, the gun would need to be checked out to be sure it's safe to do so. As far as value, I believe it will have very limited appeal to anyone with a stock like that. It was most likely custom fit to order. Also, the forearm damage detracts from the value as well as you mentioned "minimal play" in the action. Does that mean it has play? Anyone buying this would very likely have it restocked and that is not cheap. That, with the forearm repair, will already exceed the value of the gun. And usually if a person is going to the expense of restalking and forearm repair, they would also have the barrels refinished. So if I was considering it, I would have to get it for next to nothing because of what the cost would be to make it a shootable gun for me. I'm sure many others will feel the same way.
 
gunsaholic said:
There is no reason it couldn't be shot if it has 2 1/2" chambers. You can buy 2 1/2" shells in Canada from Kent. Or you could cut hulls and reload your own. However, the gun would need to be checked out to be sure it's safe to do so. As far as value, I believe it will have very limited appeal to anyone with a stock like that. It was most likely custom fit to order. Also, the forearm damage detracts from the value as well as you mentioned "minimal play" in the action. Does that mean it has play? Anyone buying this would very likely have it restocked and that is not cheap. That, with the forearm repair, will already exceed the value of the gun. And usually if a person is going to the expense of restalking and forearm repair, they would also have the barrels refinished. So if I was considering it, I would have to get it for next to nothing because of what the cost would be to make it a shootable gun for me. I'm sure many others will feel the same way.
Click to expand...

I was not 100% sure of what "play in the action" meant from your previous post. But what I mean is that there is a slight movement between the barrels section and the stock section when pulling them the opposing way, but it is very minimal, you can barely feel it.

Thanks for the inputs so far.

Jm
 
johnny1981 said:
I was not 100% sure of what "play in the action" meant from your previous post. But what I mean is that there is a slight movement between the barrels section and the stock section when pulling them the opposing way, but it is very minimal, you can barely feel it.

Thanks for the inputs so far.

Jm
Click to expand...

There are a couple of ways to check for play or off face. Open the barrels and insert a piece of paper between the breech and the face of the action and close the barrels. Is it easy to pull the paper out when the barrels are closed? Do this for each barrel. Hold the gun up to a light. Can you see day light between the barrels and the action? Hold the stock by the wrist and shake or rotate your wrist back and forth. Can you feel play or movement? Also repeat this with the forearm off.
 
gunsaholic said:
There are a couple of ways to check for play or off face. Open the barrels and insert a piece of paper between the breech and the face of the action and close the barrels. Is it easy to pull the paper out when the barrels are closed? Do this for each barrel. Hold the gun up to a light. Can you see day light between the barrels and the action? Hold the stock by the wrist and shake or rotate your wrist back and forth. Can you feel play or movement? Also repeat this with the forearm off.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info, I did all of the above, no movement when moving or shacking the gun, there is resistance when pulling the paper out, both with the forearm on and off, but it is easier to pull it out with the forearm off. At first I could not see any light in between the barrels and the action, but if you have just the right angle you can see a little light through it.
 
johnny1981 said:
Thanks for all the info, I did all of the above, no movement when moving or shacking the gun, there is resistance when pulling the paper out, both with the forearm on and off, but it is easier to pull it out with the forearm off. At first I could not see any light in between the barrels and the action, but if you have just the right angle you can see a little light through it.
Click to expand...
Without seeing the gun then, if I was selling I would probably describe it to potential buyers as slightly off face.
 
It should have Damascus barrels if it was really from the 1880's. It's more likely from 1900-1920 or thereabouts. Cross-eyed stocks were used to adapt for cross dominance, or the loss of an eye. That would make sense if it's from the WW I era. London proof marks. It's a back-action side lock, which is a plus, but it looks like it's had a hard life.

The dent needs to be repaired before you fire it, and if it's off the face, that needs to be corrected as well. Considering the amount of work needed to restore it, I would say it's worth about $450.
 
Isn't this the gun that was recently up for auction ?....I can't be of much help unfortunately ,personally only something I would be interested in as a re-stock project ,providing tangs have not been bent too much ...but that too can be remedied I guess.

It is a handsome gun though ,good luck with your sale
 
Last edited:
cjdawe said:
Is this the gun that was recently up for auction ?....I can't be of much help unfortunately ,personally only something I would be interested in as a re-stock project ,providing tangs have not been bent too much ...but that too can be remedied I guess.

It is a handsome gun though ,good luck with your sale
Click to expand...

Yes that is the one
 
I think the gun is from between 1904 and 1924. There was a fellow at our local trap club who had a couple of shotguns bent like that. He lost his dominant eye in an accident and that was his solution. He could really hit the clay birds.
 
9.3mauser said:
It should have Damascus barrels if it was really from the 1880's. It's more likely from 1900-1920 or thereabouts. Cross-eyed stocks were used to adapt for cross dominance, or the loss of an eye. That would make sense if it's from the WW I era. London proof marks. It's a back-action side lock, which is a plus, but it looks like it's had a hard life.

The dent needs to be repaired before you fire it, and if it's off the face, that needs to be corrected as well. Considering the amount of work needed to restore it, I would say it's worth about $450.
Click to expand...

It seems that the victor hammer less model was introduced in 1878, in 1885 the serial numbers started at 13246, this one is 10884, I would say that it is a 1882 model as they made about 1000 of them per year back then
 
From the chart I looked at the word "choke" was added in 1904 and the 12C ended in 1925 so by that it should be between those 2 dates. But the chart I looked at may not be accurate either. I would be surprised at a gun from 1882 having the barrels that it does along with nitro proof.
 
As a previous poster mentioned, the forum you really want to post your enquiry on is doublegunshop.com , there is a lot of knowledge there.
Unfortunately you have a gun that will need a lot of expensive work to put it back in service ( ascertain barrels condition and thickness, raise barrel dent, put back on face, service both actions, repair forearm, restock, etc), and you will want to have a gunsmith competent in SXS guns do the work ( there are a just few in Canada).
Without the restock, which will be expensive, I'd think you have at least $2000 worth of work to do, based on what I have paid recently for similar work on a back action Holland.
As for value, there was a Coggie victor bar action side lock in excellent condition, good useable stock measurements, ejector, nice wood, lots of case hardening colour, in its original fitted makers case recently on consignment at Reliable for $3800, and it didn't sell.
 
Roalco said:
As a previous poster mentioned, the forum you really want to post your enquiry on is doublegunshop.com , there is a lot of knowledge there.
Unfortunately you have a gun that will need a lot of expensive work to put it back in service ( ascertain barrels condition and thickness, raise barrel dent, put back on face, service both actions, repair forearm, restock, etc), and you will want to have a gunsmith competent in SXS guns do the work ( there are a just few in Canada).
Without the restock, which will be expensive, I'd think you have at least $2000 worth of work to do, based on what I have paid recently for similar work on a back action Holland.
As for value, there was a Coggie victor bar action side lock in excellent condition, good useable stock measurements, ejector, nice wood, lots of case hardening colour, in its original fitted makers case recently on consignment at Reliable for $3800, and it didn't sell.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info, I will try to post on doublegunshop, but the site does not seem to be very user friendly. What do you think would be a reasonable asking price for this one in particularly?
 
Just had another look at the pictures and you have different serial numbers on the action (10884) and the barrels (23611). No wonder they're not on face. Handmade SXS guns are not mix and match! You have a stock, action and forend from one gun and the barrels from another, and that's how they should be priced, described, and sold, as parts.
I would urge you in the strongest way, not to attempt to fire this gun/barrel combination!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom