Picked up another No1 Mk3 PIC HEAVY

Craig0ry

Craig0ry

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This time its not a project, Same friend I picked up my project mk3 from that is now 99% complete had another one come his way from his father and now to me, This time fully dressed. Its looks fairly good had 2 cracks which show up in the pictures and looks to be drilled and tapped for a scope mount. But here it is! I used to hate the look of the mk3 but since I redid my sporter I've fallen in love with them!

1944 GRI all matching came with a bayonet tooo







 
Very nice piece, and lucky you! Unmolested No.1's are not that thick on the ground. About the only thing not original is the "England" export stamp, which is the same that I have on my Long Branch No.4.
 
RedApe said:
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it has been molested, it was tapped for a scope. that drops the value way down.
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DAMN! Old eyes, or at least that's my excuse. I missed that and you are quite correct. Here's a pic of an unmolested 1918 BSA No1. MK.III* that I was fortunate enough to acquire from an estate sale. Interestingly, the military possession stamps were struck out when it was released for the civilian market and the words "Sale Permit" were struck onto the knoxform. All the numbers match and the condition is superb.

 
Very nice ^, I didn't actually notice the drill and tap marks until I went to take pictures as I only picked up the rifle 20 minutes before, but I didn't pay a whole lot for the rifle and bayo combo so Iam not too worried. I don't usually sell guns so it just affects me I suppose,

Is this were unmolested what would it have been worth?
 
Craig0ry said:
Very nice ^, I didn't actually notice the drill and tap marks until I went to take pictures as I only picked up the rifle 20 minutes before, but I didn't pay a whole lot for the rifle and bayo combo so Iam not too worried. I don't usually sell guns so it just affects me I suppose,

Is this were unmolested what would it have been worth?
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In my experience, values fluctuate wildly from coast to coast. From what I've seen at the local gun shows, the screw holes & stock cracks would cost you 40-50% off the market value. That said, if you were very concerned about the cosmetics of the rifle and you had no intention of putting glass on it, I'd determine the pitch of the screws and CAREFULLY insert blind screws, file them down, buff the end and blue to match the rifle. Close examination of the rifle would reveal the repair, but it would raise the value a little and look a whole lot nicer. As to value, I was offered $750. for my rifle, but it's WWI, walnut stocked, and it has the piling swivel. The bayonets alone run $100-$125 locally. Perhaps one of your local experts could chime in and give you a more accurate evaluation. It never hurts to hit the local gun shows and see what your market is like. Still, a very, very nice acquisition on your part.
 
The stock seems to be sanded and refinished too, but it looks good. Pretty rare to still have the matching magazine! Does the bayonet have a matching serial number on it and what year is the bayonet? I have seen unmolested ones going for $600-$800 with a bayonet depending on condition.

I picked up a new, unfired, just out of the grease wrapper (wiped down) 1942 Lithgow No. 1 Mk III* with an unissued bayonet for $800 shipped to me a couple of months ago. I picked up another one in similar condition with only 60 rounds through it since it was unpacked out of the grease wrap a couple of years ago with unissued bayonet for $650 shipped to me. They are out there for descent prices if you can snag them before others do! Hahaha

Ian
 
The bayo isn't matching unfortunately, didn't give it too much of a look over yet, year stamped on it is 1907, I thought maybe the stock had been refinished, the camera flash makes it looks fairly glossy but it isn't at all, I inspected the wood but couldn't really find any tell tale signs it had been, It will be a shooter for me anyway!
 
It is a great shooter! I love these rifles and they are my favourite milsurp bolt guns.

The 1907 refers to the pattern of bayonet, not the year of manufacture. There should also be a year on it too. It will be in the format MM YY and should be separated on either side or underneath the 1907 pattern designation.
 
Right, I knew they were a pattern 1907, I feel a little silly now, and I did see the date stamp. I believe the year was 1918 and don't recall the month, I'll have to take a look when Iam home from work
 
Smitsauce said:
The stock seems to be sanded and refinished too, but it looks good. Pretty rare to still have the matching magazine! Does the bayonet have a matching serial number on it and what year is the bayonet? I have seen unmolested ones going for $600-$800 with a bayonet depending on condition.

I picked up a new, unfired, just out of the grease wrapper (wiped down) 1942 Lithgow No. 1 Mk III* with an unissued bayonet for $800 shipped to me a couple of months ago. I picked up another one in similar condition with only 60 rounds through it since it was unpacked out of the grease wrap a couple of years ago with unissued bayonet for $650 shipped to me. They are out there for descent prices if you can snag them before others do! Hahaha

Ian
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Ian did you actually see these lithgows wrapped in paper?

Craig I wouldn't worry too much about the tapped holes. It's a shame but its not really going to affect you using it.

Good luck with it!
 
HarryD said:
Ian did you actually see these lithgows wrapped in paper?

Craig I wouldn't worry too much about the tapped holes. It's a shame but its not really going to affect you using it.

Good luck with it!
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No, the previous owners said they threw it out. I actually asked them for it! Haha. From the looks of them, I wouldn't hesitate to think they had just been removed from the wrapper though. I will have to try and get them both out for some pictures at some point.

On that note, I was at the range a couple of weeks ago and got talking to a gent that had a sporterized No. 4 Mk. 2. As we were talking about it he told me that he had bought it from SIR years ago brand new in the mummy wrapper and it was one of the Irish Contract rifles. He then told me all the stuff he did to it to sporterize it into its current configuration with the barrel cut down and recrowned, the stock cut up and with a pistol grip added etc... Made me feel kinda sick inside. Too bad he just didn't do that to a regular old rifle that was already sporterized! Sad to see perfect examples destroyed forever from what they once were.

Although as sporters go, it was really nice...

Ian
 
To my knowledge lithgows never left the factory in wrapping. There have been some rifles noted to have been wrapped in brown paper and sealed in a thick clear plastic but these werent covered in any grease and were FTRd during the 50's. I understand thats what you were told but I think the greased and wrapped story is a myth.
 
I don't know about how they left the factory at Lithgow when new up till they stopped making them in the 1950's, but I do know that all the ones in Army stores (used and new) were kept in wooden crates similar to the crates you see Mosin's and SKS's in and had to be physically counted and their serial numbers observed during inventory checks/counts. When they then were in storage and later when sold out of service they were no longer wrapped up in any wrappings. When in unit storage they were kept in racks with bolt secured separately.
 
mkrnel said:
I don't know about how they left the factory at Lithgow when new up till they stopped making them in the 1950's, but I do know that all the ones in Army stores (used and new) were kept in wooden crates similar to the crates you see Mosin's and SKS's in and had to be physically counted and their serial numbers observed during inventory checks/counts. When they then were in storage and later when sold out of service they were no longer wrapped up in any wrappings. When in unit storage they were kept in racks with bolt secured separately.
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HarryD said:
To my knowledge lithgows never left the factory in wrapping. There have been some rifles noted to have been wrapped in brown paper and sealed in a thick clear plastic but these werent covered in any grease and were FTRd during the 50's. I understand thats what you were told but I think the greased and wrapped story is a myth.
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Interesting. I wonder if the wrap/bag they referred to was just something that was put on them by the importer or something. Not too concerned about it now as they had both been cleaned before I got them.
 
A importer/gun dealer (John Jovino - JJCO) in the USA bought all the remaining stock of Lithgow SMLE rifles and parts and built up/assembled a lot of rifles from parts that were then sold off as new rifles when they were never really complete rifles before leaving Australia. Apparently the easy way to tell if one is one of these is to remove the fore end stock and if it is missing the brass draws it is a parts gun! tell never bothered to do this and when the rifle was shot a bit the stocks would crack because of the poor bedding from the missing draws. These guns are risky as they were just assembled from spare parts and never properly proofed!
 
Just need to keep in mind that there were thousands of lithgows manufactured without recoil inserts and many of these are in circulation today on the surplus market. These are good legitimate rifles so we need to be careful not to deem all rifles without plates as John jovino put togethers. The jovino rifles do stand out in appearance also and usually you can identify one without determining whether it has plates or not. Also we mustn't assume that all rifles imported by jovino and import stamped jjco are put togethers. He imported a great number of good legitimate rifles and often these get overlooked because of the jjco stamp. There's plenty of good information on these if you search enfield forums like Gunboards, but read every post carefully to separate truth from myth.
 
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