Help with identifying my 1943 Long Branch No4 Mk1* (PIC HEAVY)

54btybdr

54btybdr

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Good day all,

I apologize in advance, some of the photos would not rotate or shrink properly. At any rate, I recently acquired a sporterized Lee Enfield Long Branch No4 Mk1*. The barrel does not look like it's been cut, thankfully, and should be a candidate for restoration. The rifle is very dirty (as the pictures will show) and I'm sure it will look nicer once it's cleaned properly. Short of needing the original wood pieces, it looks to me that I only need a front sight post guard.

I just need a bit of help making sense of the markings. I've looked on numerous Lee websites to decipher the markings and I'm still confused. Does anyone know:
-If it's a numbers matching rifle (I suspect not)
-Am I correct that this rifle is a good candidate for a restore?
-Is this the original buttstock?
-Any other points of interest would be greatly appreciated!!













 
For a Long Branch, From what I gather the only things that would be matching are the bolt and receiver, the serial on the bolt should be on the rear face of the handle, it should have the same number as the receiver. Magazines were not numbered in Canadian Service but were in British service hence the serial on the base of yours, but its mismatched so probably got mixed up somewhere in its life.

For restoration, yes your metal is in tact and should be no problem to restore if you can find all the bits. Barrel has a faint Long Branch marking so might be original as well.

Butt stock is a correct No.4 Stock.

Looks to me like it might of went through British FTR (Factory thorough Repair) which was basically a complete overhaul. Not sure on this though.
 
Your pictures are just dandy.
You'll need all the assorted stock metal and their screws too. Restorations can get pricey. Have a look at Marstar's pages. They do not have all the bits, but you'll get an idea of what's missing and roughly how much it's going to cost.
Before you spend any money on stock parts check the headspace. Matching numbers mean nothing in regards to headspace.
And slug the barrel. That's more about ammo/bullets than anything else. Ideally, the barrel ID should be between .311" to .312". Factory ammo and component bullets come in those diameters only.
It have the BNP stamps too? That only means it was sold through Britain at some time. Doesn't add or subtract any value or anything else.
An FTR'd rifle will have FTR stamped on it with a year.
 
First off, very nice find. The brits definitely got their hands on it at some point, and I think that explains the 2 sets of serial numbers. You're going to have lots of fun trying to acquire Long Branch marked hardware and the 3 pieces of walnut forestock. Post a request in the Parts section of the EE for starters and be prepared to spend some money. At the end of the day, it'll be worth it in my opinion. I've had the pleasure of bringing back a couple of Long Branch No.4's to factory original condition, but it's VERY frustrating trying to get the correct wood and hardware. I just acquired a nice '43 Long Branch that was in lovely shape. The brits had put on the brass butt plate and an English micrometer sight, but I have some of the black alloy Canadian Arsenals butt plates and a Long Branch micrometer sight so I put those on. That's all that was required to make once again solidly Canadian. If your head space is off, I've seen Long Branch bolt heads at the gun shows so that can be put back to rights. If your bore is off, that's a whole other story. As Sunray said, have your head space checked and slug the bore. If it's a good candidate for restoration and you decide to go that route, please keep up to speed on your progress. Here was a '42 Long Branch showing what I looked like when I bought it and what it looked like when I was done.

 
Awesome, thanks all. I'll try to find a gunsmith in the Brantford/Hamilton area. Once I've figured out the headspace and bore status I'll post again. Fingers crossed
 
54btybdr said:
How does one tell if a Lee went through a FTR?
Click to expand...

FTR marking is usually around this area. I don't see it; even faintly, but in person you may be able to.



I've had luck picking up Long Branch parts from e-bay, UK sellers, can be expensive though. I'll PM you a couple of names.

If you're in no rush, post a WTB on the EE.

Hopefully your head space is good, you are already using a #2 bolt head and #3 heads are scarce.
 
Nice rifle. It's all there for a restore. The bolt has been renumbered to match and is not original to the rifle. There's nothing wrong with that as long as it fits. I would have jumped on that one.
 
From 303british.com

There also seems to be a lot of confusion between headspace and long chambers. If anything, 303 British chambered Lee Enfields suffer most from long chambers. What exactly do I mean? The area forward of the recess where the rim sits when the action is closed is often longer than what the original specifications called for. A rifle could have absolutely perfect headspace, yet have a long chamber. When this happens, brass stretches. In fact, long chambers are the number one reason for brass failing. Rarely is case stretching caused by excessive headspace. Nor does rim thickness ruin headspace. Thinner rims may have a small affect, but it's not nearly as bad as some of the "Internet experts" would have you believe.
 
There's no FTR markings that I can see and definitely nothing beside the Long Branch stamping. The rifle is going to the gunsmith tomorrow for a check. I'm hoping all is well. After cleaning the bore, it looks quite clean and the groves look good.

I'm hoping to come back with good news!
 
Many people talk about headspace, however it is a rare problem. If a rifle had correct headspace when made the chances of it changing are remote. Very few guns get fired enough to alter the headspace. Not saying Bubba hadn't visited that particular gun, but that is what it would take to alter pretty much any of them, unless they had seen severe service.

I'm not saying it can't happen, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be checked, however I am saying the chances of finding headspace as a problem are remote.

I play with old military guns a lot. Mostly Enfields and Springfields. I have never had one that had a headspace issue and it probably would have been a Springfield anyway as the headspace on a Rimless cartridge is more likely to change than that of a Rimmed cartridge.

My Long Branch has what would be normally be considered a loose bore at .305/.316, however that would be a relative statement since this gun hasn't been fired that much so I know it wasn't worn that way. It is also a 2 groove barrel where 80% of the bore is lands, and 20% is grooves. The fact that the bore is "oversized" may very well be deliberately done to reduce pressures since so much of the bore is .305 diameter. The two grooves on my gun a barely .090 wide

A normal bore for a 4, 5 or 6 groove barrel would be more like 50/50 bore to groove ratio and pressure from that barrel would be lower as a result of the smaller amount of the bullet being swaged down to the bore diameter.

I bet the reason for the larger groove and bore diameters is the fact that when you are swaging 80% of the bullet down to the bore dia. you have no problem filling the .316 grooves with metal and thus the larger size is necessary to keep pressures similar to a normal sized barrel.

The fact that so many chambers on these guns are longer than they should be means little as Battle Rifles were designed to shoot factory loaded ammo and the fact that this cartridge headspaces on the rim simply means that there is more room for variations in cartridge length like would be present in ammo made by many different suppliers under war time conditions.

Even if you reload these cases they will fit just fine in your chamber with only neck sizing for at least a few loadings. Now if you try to put them in a different rifle they may or may not fit the other chamber, and really that is just part of the fun.

Randy
 
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