No steel targets allowed at Mission Rod & Gun now

josquin

josquin

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This just in from "Speed Steel" at MRAG. I had been shooting some (NRA-approved) steel targets from time to time. John G saw them and asked,and thought they were OK but recently the word came down that you had to have some sort of info sheet from the manufacturer to prove that they were of the proper type. I printed out the specs from Quality Target in the US who supplied mine. But now...

Due to not having a majority of executive members present to vote, the issue has been addressed through e-mail and meetings. The final decision is below:

Some of the executive members met this evening, Wednesday Dec 10th. Combined with the e-mail responses, the majority vote is in. Due to changes in Insurance Coverage, only club owned steel maybe used on the ranges. As such the executive can not approve your personal steel for use on the pistol range. Our current policy is valid until december 31st. Thus as of January 1st, RSO's will be enforcing, club policy. Commercially maunfactured .22lr spinner targets are still approved for use on the ranges in conjunctionm with club policy on their use, and as such are covered by our new carrier for insurance.

John Gumienny
Pistol Chair/Treasurer
MDRG
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I've asked him what "club owned steel" might be available. (Also what their insurance company knows about shooting....) I mostly shoot paper anyway, but this is rather annoying so although I'll probably sign up again for this year as I'm only 15 mins. from the range, I will likely look into Abbotsford or Ridgedale. Anyone know what their policies are?

Of course, we ought to be able to shoot handguns in the bush, but we all know what would happen to the delicate social fabric of our country if that were allowed!

:(
 
6MT said:
Just follow the rules. You are a guest/member. Their sandbox, their rules. If you don't like it, move on.
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Rather than "moving on". You and other like minded people run for BOD positions and change the rules. The world is run by those who show up. Yes, that is a little over the top but you get the idea.
 
6MT said:
Just follow the rules. You are a guest/member. Their sandbox, their rules. If you don't like it, move on.
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He didn't say anything about breaking the rules. And he is a member, so it's his sandbox too. You could suggest he go about trying to get the rules changed. That would be more constructive than telling him if he doesn't like 1 thing at his club he should leave.
 
Just got this from John G:

The issue isn't the Insurance company not knowing about steel or shooting. It comes down to a means that it can be safely monitored.
The concern is valid, based upon that there is no one way to monitor which member has approved, (with in safety guide lines) appropriate steel. The enforcement by RSO's would be difficult. To simplify this the steel purchased by club is certified. This meets the Insurance Policy requirement. I am not saying its the best way to have it, it is unfortunately the best way the club can deal with it.
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Hmmm.... I would have thought that providing the mfr's specs. on the steel targets, as John himself had originally suggested, would have been quite easy for the RSOs to check. Circulating the requirements would allow people to come up with something suitable. Hopefully there will be more discussion on this in the next year.
 
sail32 said:
I wonder what the Cowboy Action Shooters will make of this ?
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The Cowboy Action Shooters have their own range up behind the rifle range. Thanks for the reminder as I'd forgotten about them -that's probably the "club approved steel" that John mentioned. I haven't actually seen anyone shooting steel on the main pistol range aside from myself, although I've not been up there as much as I'd like this year. I should talk to Peter Riedel ("Rusty Wood") who lives up near me. He's really into the cowboy stuff. (Also a good gunsmith.) :)
 
Range insurance is one thing, CFO Range approval conditions is another.
Steel can be approved. It's usually minimum of 7-10m for indoor range, I doubt it'd be a good idea to have it less than 7m for any range due to splatter.
Those who want rules changed, sport and activity to live on, need to get involved. Don't be a mere user.
 
Welcome to Insurance by having "club steel" the range prevents the insurance company invalidating the all the club's insurance if some one gets hurt, using steel targets no meeting the requirements. That closes the range. But have you considered an alternative, 'Club steel' that you can basically sign out, so general use steel targets that you either sign out at the club house or have access to when it is closed.
 
Silveragent said:
Here's a suggestion. Every member 'loan' their steel to the Club while they are a member. Once they leave they take it with them.
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Nice try- but only "club steel" is allowed! So if they didn't buy it, it won't fly (or perhaps I should say "nothing will fly at it"!)

CeeZeer, it seems that they aren't interested in approving anything other than what they have bought themselves, but this could change if enough people were interested, I suppose.
I believe the mfr. of my targets suggested 12 yards as the minimum safe distance so I used that, although I also made up some bigger plates to ring at 25 and 50m, which is plenty far enough out not to be dangerous.

rgallant: I've asked about using THEIR steel but no reply so far. I suspect that it's only available on the Cowboy Action Range. One alternative would be for the range to buy more "approved" steel and make it available for use on the regular pistol range. I doubt this has occurred to them as there probably hasn't been enough interest. It seems my taking my own targets up is what has brought this up in the first place, and I've not even been doing that much shooting! :)
 
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Get INVOLVED!!
If you wanna get things done, you MUST get involved.
Go to club/range meetings, voice your opinion and concern/interest.
Think how it might benefit the club/range financially as it's one of the major concerns clubs/ranges have too. While staying on safe range use side.
 
I am a member at Ridgedale, no steel targets allowed, no human shaped targets allowed and no rolling - bouncing ground targets are allowed. I am sure it's all due to insurance ! Sucks, but that is what they say.
 
As far as I know Abbottsford allows you to bring your own steel. Going off the top of my head I think you have to set in up 30m away from pistol and 50 m for rifles.
 
Sadly I've seen what can happen when folks ignore the limitations of various steel targets and shoot up hand gun and shot gun rated steel with their high velocity rifles. It ruins the steel by producing craters on the front faces. It's the craters that create an unsafe condition.

The steel that the club has for Speed Steel and Cowboy action is all decent alloy stuff. But it won't stand up to high velocity rifle such as 5.56/.223 or the steel jackets of the 7.62x39 ammo. So the chances that folks will be allowed to use it generally are between slim to nil.

Sadly these same people are not above providing faked letters or slips saying that their steel is OK when it might be a regular alloy that craters badly. As usual it would only take one or two to do this to ruin it for everyone else.

What is needed is to go with the flow by asking that suitable AR500 or better steel targets be supplied by and installed by the club. And that means going to the meetings and putting forward the idea.

We can even see this sort of confusion over bullet speed vs damage to steel targets in the rimfire world. I've got one of my own rimfire flip targets. HUGE fun for all. But someone shot at it with a .17HMR thinking that it would be OK. Now I've got this nice clean hole punched clear through one of the plates. And this is the problem. Folks that shoot the 5.56/.223 seem to have this idea that it's "only" a .22 size bullet so how much damage can it do? And sadly the handgun and shotgun targets show far too much of this sort of misunderstanding if left out for general use.
 
BCRider said:
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What is needed is to go with the flow by asking that suitable AR500 or better steel targets be supplied by and installed by the club. And that means going to the meetings and putting forward the idea.
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I think you're right here. It hasn't happened probably because there hasn't been any interest aside from the cowboy guys. I don't know if there has been any interest on the rifle range, but as you say that's a whole 'nuther ball of wax. And yes, there are always a few idiots who will do stupid things. (Although there's lots of that up Sylvester Road and other public areas and no one seems to get themself hurt... unfortunately!) Some of my steel targets are AR500 and some A36 (still NRA-approved) but for general use, even with lead only on the pistol range, they should probably be AR500 just for durability. I'll send a letter to Jihn G and see if I can get rhe ball rolling.
:)
 
There's also that big hunk o' iron or steel at the 200 yard berm sitting in that big tractor tire. It's been there for a few years now. The damage done by hundreds or thousands of high velocity rifle rounds to the face of it is a firm testament to the need for a good alloy if any other steel is to be permanently set up to be shot by the club members.
 
And here I was getting ready to buy a few steel challenge targets to use at Mission. Guess I'll have to drive to Abby... :(

@josquin: let me know if you need any additional support. Manufactured-approved steel targets should definitely be allowed, but at Mission the handgun range is pretty much at the bottom of their priority (they seem to focus way more on Cowboy, rifle and shotgun...)
 
BCRider said:
There's also that big hunk o' iron or steel at the 200 yard berm sitting in that big tractor tire. It's been there for a few years now. The damage done by hundreds or thousands of high velocity rifle rounds to the face of it is a firm testament to the need for a good alloy if any other steel is to be permanently set up to be shot by the club members.
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I'm pretty sure it isn't AR500(!) but the fact that it has survived is no doubt due to being 1" thick.

I have sent an e-mail to John G re thre club making up "proper" steel targets for the regular pistol range. I suggested putting up a notice on the pistol range to see if there is any interest. (Probably not much fedback at this time of year!)

"More news at 6", as they say... :)
 
I am also a member ( just renewed after many years away) I am with you on this,it would be a nice change from putting holes in paper once and a while.
 
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