Hey guys, I am a fairly new to the shooting game. Looking into different competitions, 3 gun in particular really interest me. But I cannot seem to find 3gun competitions anywhere in BC or Canada in general. I have been looking at 3gunnation in the states, they have this sport down solid... Could you guys fill me in on why we are not as developed in this area? Thanks!
3 gun in BC or Canada in general
- Thread starter GasCap
- Start date
We're not as "developed" in 3gun, especially the 3GN style for the same reasons we're not as developed as the US is in all aspects of the shooting sports.
We are over regulated which scares many away from these sports.
Regulation and "the law" hobble our ability to shoot much of what can be done in America.
We do the best we can with what we have and under the yoke of oppression we're burdened with.
For my 3gun fixes... its off to the US.
'Been as far as New Mexico to shoot a match.
The other aspect to consider... Especially were 3GN is concerned is... MONEY.
3GN is built for TV.
So called "outlaw" matches are heavily supported by industry.
Prize tables are worth tens of thousands of dollars because there's a ready market...
Here in Canada there are not enough of us to register as a blip in some company's spreadsheet.
That's my take anyway
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
As a variation on IPSC, see Kelowna and Kamloops ranges.
They run 3 Gun matches there.
Jerry
They run 3 Gun matches there.
Jerry
At Poco we did 'multi-gun' twice last year. This year we will probably do one. We probably will have our own set of rules again. I would love to do more but there are a limited number of weekends available which competes with LEAP, IPSC, trap and other events. At the club level we need more volunteer/board support for events like these. Plus on the board level we need to start altering some club rules and the environment to make it more conducive to more dynamic stages. Things they can do at TMSA and Abbotsford we have to neuter a bit at Poco, which is a shame because the club grounds are fine and the turn outs are decent for a non-IPSC event.
Come out to the AGM at the end of January and vote for people who want changes otherwise it will become more restrictive.
You have attended any 3 gun matches in Canada if so, what are some of the differences in terms of rules, courses,etc.. between US and Canada? The first thing I could think of is Capacity limitation on 223s to 5 rounds and confirmed by Kamloop range rule book.
a. Handgun magazine capacity is restricted to a maximum of 10- rounds.
b. Semi-automatic rifle magazines are restricted to a maximum of 5- rounds, however;
c. 10-round handgun magazines may be used in appropriate long-arms.
I think this would take a lot of the fun away... and would be the biggest impact on the growth of this sport.
I was very excited when I first got my pal but then later realized that there are huge differences between us and the US... too much youtube watching...
please excuse my ignorance on this subject... any discussions would help my understanding greatly. Thank you
a. Handgun magazine capacity is restricted to a maximum of 10- rounds.
b. Semi-automatic rifle magazines are restricted to a maximum of 5- rounds, however;
c. 10-round handgun magazines may be used in appropriate long-arms.
I think this would take a lot of the fun away... and would be the biggest impact on the growth of this sport.
I was very excited when I first got my pal but then later realized that there are huge differences between us and the US... too much youtube watching...
please excuse my ignorance on this subject... any discussions would help my understanding greatly. Thank you
As far as poco goes, it would be great if its open to members of the range. This past June event was great, but hearing from couple of the IPSC guys and club directors say it will not be open to public again was a big let down.
With good board support we can put one on again. Ideally I would like it to be open to competitors from the other disciplines. The issue to the board and to the subcommittee who are likely to put it on is we don't have time to do safety checks so we are reliant on people having experience in the other competitions. Most of the safety rules are the same so there has to be a way to make it work. The standard is IPSC but it doesn't encompass the 3-Gun that is popular in the States.
To bring this back to the thread again, we may need to form a 3-Gun subcommittee to get it done.
1. Join the range.
2. Come out for the AGM. Bring all your buddies who want the same thing.
3. Read the candidate profiles. There will be some candidates who will be declaring their intentions regarding improving the club.
4. Vote.
For volunteering the majority of the work that is not conducted by employees is by board members, the executive and members of the subcommittees. If you want to become active as a volunteer, find a subcommittee that meets your interest and contact those in charge. You can look on the website under the subheadings in the top menu.
2. Come out for the AGM. Bring all your buddies who want the same thing.
3. Read the candidate profiles. There will be some candidates who will be declaring their intentions regarding improving the club.
4. Vote.
For volunteering the majority of the work that is not conducted by employees is by board members, the executive and members of the subcommittees. If you want to become active as a volunteer, find a subcommittee that meets your interest and contact those in charge. You can look on the website under the subheadings in the top menu.
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Good on you if you step up for change rather than just complain. Good luck!
There is some complexities that make multi gun shoots different in Canada than the US. Magazine capacity is huge. Beowulf > LAR > 5 round. How do you class people? Some people can't afford or guns are compatible with Beo mags. Everybody run 5? Pretty frustrating.
Other issue primarily relate to the safe aspect. Most of the local ranges don't allow holsters without some sort of qualification, some don't allow slings, then there is steel engagement distances, shooting side berms or not. It goes on. Sadly there isn't a standardized multi gun rule book or association clubs can look to.
I shoot a lot with the IPSC guys at PoCo. They do ALOT of work for both IPSC and multi gun matches, but it's the same guys who show up at set up and take down all the time, while a lot of other shooters slink away after the match. Would be nice if more people stepped up to help out.
Other issue primarily relate to the safe aspect. Most of the local ranges don't allow holsters without some sort of qualification, some don't allow slings, then there is steel engagement distances, shooting side berms or not. It goes on. Sadly there isn't a standardized multi gun rule book or association clubs can look to.
I shoot a lot with the IPSC guys at PoCo. They do ALOT of work for both IPSC and multi gun matches, but it's the same guys who show up at set up and take down all the time, while a lot of other shooters slink away after the match. Would be nice if more people stepped up to help out.
the_klenzer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Hey Phil
We had this discussion at tacmatch more than a few times, the consensus seemed to be overall that like in all sports, embrace technology that makes you competitive. In terms of cost of the mags, an LAR doesn't cost much more than a P-Mag, and even though a Beo holds more, they sure can cause a lot more jams. More than a few people have moved back to LARs.
I will say though... I like not having 30 round mags for competition. Low capacity mags add to the importance of learning to run your rifle, not just shoot it. Plus you have to work the logistics of timing mag changes for timed movers and such. More challenge... more fun!
- Location
- Fort St John B.C.
we had 3x 3gun matchs in fort st john, 1x in grande prarie and 2-3 matches in peace river this year..... 2015 fsj has 4 matchs booked, gp has 2x 3 gun matchs booked (one in march for some winter madness) and peace river has at least 2 booked.
all this within 2hr drive of fsj.....9 matches already arranged for 2015. we run "peace river outlaw" rules and use idpa style scoring..... copy of our general rules https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm0ibl5cxw0sa2h/3gun divisions.pdf?dl=0 (just download it to view)
all this within 2hr drive of fsj.....9 matches already arranged for 2015. we run "peace river outlaw" rules and use idpa style scoring..... copy of our general rules https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm0ibl5cxw0sa2h/3gun divisions.pdf?dl=0 (just download it to view)
having been heavily involved in the 3 Gun matches in Kamloops I agree with all the statements made. It is extremely labour intensive to set up and tear down. The same people seem to be the ones doing it all the time and they will/did get burned out. That was why there were no matches this year. The last match Kamloops held had a very small turnout and only 3 people did the set up and tear down. Kind of soured them for a while.
As to the mag restrictions in Kamloops it is simply stating Canadian law. At the time those were written there were no Beo wolf mags. The rules haven't been updated.
The comment about having to change mags and actually run your gun is very true and has a hidden use. To build a stage that uses all 3 firearms and has a mag change for a 30 round mag, 10+ round shotgun and 15+ round pistol is huge. The 3 gun nation matches must have a huge amount of volunteers to reset. It may be a ton of fun to shoot, but you have to think about how long it takes to score the stage, reset and run 20-40 people through the stage in a day. And if you have 6 stages like this you better have a lot of volunteers and multiple days to run the match. Canadian mag restrictions are annoying but they make you more proficient with all your firearms skills, especially reloading.
I always had a formula for a 6 stage match. Total round count of 200 rounds combine for all three guns. That way I could get 30 people through in one day. More people or more rounds and you were pushing a 12 hour day.
I am no expert on organizing matches, but after running 2 3gun matches a year for 4 years I think I have some insight. I am willing to travel and went to Lone Butte and Abbotsford's match's and really enjoyed them. I would love to see more matches as well, but as someone else said, Canadian laws scare away more people than we can attract to the sport.
Just my opinion
As to the mag restrictions in Kamloops it is simply stating Canadian law. At the time those were written there were no Beo wolf mags. The rules haven't been updated.
The comment about having to change mags and actually run your gun is very true and has a hidden use. To build a stage that uses all 3 firearms and has a mag change for a 30 round mag, 10+ round shotgun and 15+ round pistol is huge. The 3 gun nation matches must have a huge amount of volunteers to reset. It may be a ton of fun to shoot, but you have to think about how long it takes to score the stage, reset and run 20-40 people through the stage in a day. And if you have 6 stages like this you better have a lot of volunteers and multiple days to run the match. Canadian mag restrictions are annoying but they make you more proficient with all your firearms skills, especially reloading.
I always had a formula for a 6 stage match. Total round count of 200 rounds combine for all three guns. That way I could get 30 people through in one day. More people or more rounds and you were pushing a 12 hour day.
I am no expert on organizing matches, but after running 2 3gun matches a year for 4 years I think I have some insight. I am willing to travel and went to Lone Butte and Abbotsford's match's and really enjoyed them. I would love to see more matches as well, but as someone else said, Canadian laws scare away more people than we can attract to the sport.
Just my opinion
thanks for your input, haven't been to a 3gun match yet, really interested in giving it a shot.
I would think that it is really hard to attract more people into this sport with just static range shooting compared to 3gun and alike. Canadian law is really killing it.
But what about other factors like weather and location of range/distance. We don't have as good of weather condition compared to the states, are people willing to shoot in slow? also how many people are willing to drive 2-3+ hours to Kamloops or Chilliwack even 5+ hours to Lone butte?
How many mag changes do you have to do during a 6 and 10 stage match? if 3gun does become popular in the future, would constant mag changes be fun to do and fun for the audience to watch? when I watch 3gun nation matches it really amaze me on how fast it goes (with no mag changes maybe relaoding shotgun shells).
I know 5 rounds really kills the steam! LAR-15 would do, but I know a few people that don't like how small it is because it is harder to hold/change mags. with 3gun speed is the main watch point.. 5 rnds counters that completely.
