70 gr Berger VLD AR 15

tactical_tech

tactical_tech

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As I'm waiting for some final parts to complete my AR upgrades I started loading some test rounds and ran into some issues.

I'm using remington brass, 70gr berger VLD. Virgin brass full length resized with Hornady dies. Now here's my problem, I'm having neck tension issues. When I get the bullet seated to mag length, I can very easily push the bullet into the case by pushing the round against the table. I even tried crimping with the Hornady die, but even with a fairly strong crimp I could still push the bullet into the case with moderate pressure.

I had some 75gr AMAX that I purchased before I found out they will not work in an AR mag. Seated them to Hornady's COAL, I was unable to push the bullet deeper into the case even with fairly firm pressure.

I did some googling and couldn't find a similar issues.

Any advice?
 
VLD's have very long noses. Is it possible part of the ogive is inside the neck so the crimp isn't doing anything? Even if it's a few thou smaller (too little to see) it could prevent the crimp from working.
I've had something similar happen with cast bullets sometimes where once enough of the full diameter section opens up the neck, the tension is gone because there's no springback in the brass. Annealing usually helps.
Normally you can apply a light crimp to bullets that don't have a cannalure and it should stop the bullet moving.
 
its entirely possibly that part of the ogive may be in the case. It doesn't appear that way by looking at them though. I even tried making a round with the bullet seated fairly far out just to try to rule that out but I could still push the bullet in, it was fairly firm pressure though, compared to the AMAX which didn't even budge with very firm pressure.

Another thing to note is that I noticed the max COAL with the berger was around 2.28" where as the AMAX was in the 2.35" range. I wonder if the Berger VLD is maybe not a good fit for my AR. I'm just going by memory though for those numbers as I don't have them infront of me. But I do remember that the Berger was very close to touching the lands when loaded to the 2.25" mag length.
 
Used this bullet a lot in ARs. Great bullet, but I have had some major issues with the bullet being pushed into the case, causing overpressure and then having the primers fall out and cause all kinds of havoc. I solved this using the Lee Factory Crimp die. Best crimp dies out there. They work like the collet die, so they will never collapse the case and their performance is not dependent on trim length. I have one for sale on the EE.
 
kombayotch said:
Used this bullet a lot in ARs. Great bullet, but I have had some major issues with the bullet being pushed into the case, causing overpressure and then having the primers fall out and cause all kinds of havoc. I solved this using the Lee Factory Crimp die. Best crimp dies out there. They work like the collet die, so they will never collapse the case and their performance is not dependent on trim length. I have one for sale on the EE.
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I thought about trying a lee crimp die. Tonight after work I did some more coal measurements and found that with using the berger my max coal was right around 2.25" . So even loaded to mag length they would potentially be jammed into the lands, which I can't imagine is a good thing in a semi auto. I don't think I could seat them much deeper than the 2.25" as I imagine I would be seating past the ogive. I did see that berger makes a 73gr bthp which doesn't use the same ogive profile as the VLD. I may try to get some of those and give them a try.
 
Try seating one backwards in the case too see if you have the same lack of tension issue. If not it's a good bet the ogive is inside the neck. Another remedy may be a slightly smaller mandrel in your FL sizing die to give a margin for spring back. Replacements are cheap enough to make it a worthwhile experiment. I'm also a huge fan of Lee factory crimp dies when a crimp is required.
 
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tactical_tech said:
I thought about trying a lee crimp die. Tonight after work I did some more coal measurements and found that with using the berger my max coal was right around 2.25" . So even loaded to mag length they would potentially be jammed into the lands, which I can't imagine is a good thing in a semi auto. I don't think I could seat them much deeper than the 2.25" as I imagine I would be seating past the ogive. I did see that berger makes a 73gr bthp which doesn't use the same ogive profile as the VLD. I may try to get some of those and give them a try.
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You should be able to get a considerable OAL length out of the 70 VLD before pushing into the lands, due to the secant ogive.
The 73 LTB is a far easier bullet to load with, (and one of my favourites) especially running in an AR where mag length is critical.
I too use a Lee FCD - definately the way to go.
 
I never did anything special for them, just loaded to mag length and shot them. Shot as well as 69 SMKs at the same velocity, but they have the same BC as the 77 SMK. Wylde chambers seem to love this bullet, currently shooting them in a boltgun with a Wylde chamber. Same load as the AR, same COAL. Rifle shoots bugholes.
 
beltfed said:
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You should be able to get a considerable OAL length out of the 70 VLD before pushing into the lands, due to the secant ogive.
The 73 LTB is a far easier bullet to load with, (and one of my favourites) especially running in an AR where mag length is critical.
I too use a Lee FCD - definately the way to go.
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To be honest I was quite surprised at how quickly it ran into the lands I had to measure several times with several bullets and all maxed around the 2.25". Where as 75gr AMAX hit the lands around 2.37". It is a match grade barrel in .223 wylde, not sure if that would explain it though. I think I may just stick with a BTHP.
 
Longshot said:
For an AR why bother with VLDs? Any of the Berger BTs, Sierra matchkings and noslers will shoot just as good without the hassles of loading a VLD.
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I picked up the VLDs when I was out of town at a wholesale sports. Was the only bergers they had at that time. Plan on getting some other varieties this weekend. Have you had any experience with the hornady 75gr BTHP?
 
Longshot said:
These new tipped matchkings should make things interesting! The new 77 has the same BC as the 80 and the new 69 has the same BC as the old 77.
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Sierra's BCs have always been on the optimistic side. For example, they list the BC of their 2156 155 Palma bullet at 0.504. Bryan fond it to be 0.447. That's a huge difference...
 
Update time!

Well after work today I stopped by wholesale sports, picked up the Lee crimp die, some 77 gr berger OTM, managed to score some pistol powder as well. Can't remember the last time I seen any pistol powder there.

Anyways, back to the issue at hand. First thing I did was made a dummy round with the 77gr OTM, it has a hybrid tangent/secant ogive. I didn't have any tension issues with this bullet unless I pushed really hard, but then it only moved a bit. So success there. I also checked my max coal, pretty much the same as the VLD bullet, just slightly past the 2.25". Would this be due to bullet design or could it be due to the match barrel?

Next thing I did was try the Lee FCD, and I gotta say this thing is an absolute peach to use. I always found it kind of a pain crimping with the seating die. I applied just enough crimp to stop the bullet from being able to be pushed back.

Now if my scope mount would just show up I could try these loads out. Thanks again guys for all your help.

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The OTM series of bullets are tangent believe it or not. But they do have a better profile than the matchkings. I use quite a bit less dope with the OTMs than I do with a regular matchking. Hybrids are another fish altogether and if I can find them that's what I prefer to shoot.
 
Figured I'd give a little mini update. Both the Berger VLD and OTM bullets shot very well,sub moa quite easily, best group of 0.3" 5 shot group, that was the VLDs.

I also just picked up some 77gr Sierra match kings. Just finished loading them. However they required no crimp at all. Could not push a bullet any deeper by pushing it against the table. So hopefully I can get out tomorrow and see how they do.
 
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