Checking headspace

bolt action or semi auto???

for a bolt action just to ruffle feathers........bolt should close on a full length sized case with 1 layer of green painters tape, should not close on same piece of brass with 2 layers of tape......not sure what kind of tape you have........well experiment with a rifle you know is good until you get the answer, then repeat the process with the rifle in question...........you can also glue the correct size pieces of shim stock to cases for future referrance..........
 
No you can not check headspace without a least a steel go gauge made to the correct dimension.

If you use new brass cases or new ammunition or a fired and sized case you are not measuring headspace, you are measuring the amount of head clearance that piece of brass has in your chamber.
 
guntech said:
No you can not check headspace without a least a steel go gauge made to the correct dimension.

If you use new brass cases or new ammunition or a fired and sized case you are not measuring headspace, you are measuring the amount of head clearance that piece of brass has in your chamber.
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a internet full of savage shooters still have both eyes and all their fingers, don't ever purchase a savage on the EE before you verify the barrel wasn't checked with clear tape, masking tape, or shim stock glued to a piece of brass...........I wouldn't trust this method on a Remington, heck I don't even trust remingtons.............oh and merry Christmas dennis
 
lejarretnoir said:
So which brass case manufacturer has the proper headspace?
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none of them, but I have yet to buy new brass that wouldn't chamber in a rifle..........and by setting the headspace of the rifle to that of the brass in hand you can prolong the life of your brass setting to the minimum headspace of the brass in question.........

the only brass I have seen all over the map when measuring from base to shoulder on a case gauge either had a rim on it or a belt..........
 
yodave said:
a internet full of savage shooters still have both eyes and all their fingers, don't ever purchase a savage on the EE before you verify the barrel wasn't checked with clear tape, masking tape, or shim stock glued to a piece of brass...........I wouldn't trust this method on a Remington, heck I don't even trust remingtons.............oh and merry Christmas dennis
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The question asked wasn't about eyes and fingers, Savages or Remingtons...:)
it was about checking headspace... and checking headspace (which is a fixed dimension when the rifle is assembled) is done using steel gauges manufactured to an exact standard.

and have a good New Year too...
 
guntech said:
The question asked wasn't about eyes and fingers, Savages or Remingtons...:)
it was about checking headspace... and checking headspace (which is a fixed dimension when the rifle is assembled) is done using steel gauges manufactured to an exact standard.

and have a good New Year too...
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Exactly!
yodave, it's got nothing to do with Savage barrel nut systems, the internet or ruffling feathers.
When reaming a new chamber for any rifle action you need an exact standard to go by. A rifle shell still does not set headspace to zero nor is it a gauge for Ackley type chambers. If said brass is already stretched pass the No-Go and you set your headspace to that, there is no way of telling that you have added a few more thousands on top it.
 
yodave said:
bolt action or semi auto???

for a bolt action just to ruffle feathers........bolt should close on a full length sized case with 1 layer of green painters tape, should not close on same piece of brass with 2 layers of tape......not sure what kind of tape you have........well experiment with a rifle you know is good until you get the answer, then repeat the process with the rifle in question...........you can also glue the correct size pieces of shim stock to cases for future referrance..........
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This is VERY BAD advice.

A sized case will only be relevant to the sizing die and press it was sized in. This will have zero relation to the headspace of any commercially produced ammo.
 
With the utmost resect to Guntech and the other posters who's opinions I respect ,..I have to agree with Yodave on this one.

It is a given that the steel gauges will give you the "proper" SAAMI headspace specs. For someone in the "business", having a set of gauges is prudent however for lots of us "financial prudence" is a reality.

The fact that we don't shoot "steel gauges" in our guns...we shoot the shells that we buy or make In our dies...how can that not be equally as right for individual rifles as using gauges...the resized cases will fit our guns that we plan on using them in. Wildcatters have been fitting rifles to "modified cases" for eons, a factory or resized case is no different.

To take this further I think Dave's method gives me more info than a set of gauges will. The gauges are very good for "new chambering's", however for old, existing chambering's they only tell me if the bolt will close...not if the headsace has lengthened for any reason, where Daves method tells me if the headspace has changed and if so, how much.

Another method I use for testing headspace in every vintage lever gun I am going to shoot (mostly rimmed cartridges) is to take a hand full of empty brass, re-prime them and shoot them thru the gun. when you eject the cases you will see that the primer is protruding from the case. The amount the primer protrudes is the amount of space you have between the bolt face and cartridge face. Some people hesitate to call this "head space" but it is what it is...the space between both bolt head and cartridge head.
 
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FALover said:
Headspace is not the gap between bolt and cartridge. It is the measurement of the cartridge where it is to stop in the chamber. The critical part of this article is 'Headspace is a critical consideration in any firearm. It should be checked by a competent person using the appropriate headspace gauges prior to using the firearm." [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headspace_%28firearms%29


[/URL]
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So, there is no "headspace" for a rimmed cartridge?

You can call it whatever you want. It makes no difference to me how deep the cartridge is allowed to mechanically seat in the chamber or how far forward the bolt is mechanically allowed to go forward...the dangerous measurement for me is the relationship and amount of space between the two.
 
fingers284 said:
It is a given that the steel gauges will give you the "proper" SAAMI headspace specs. For someone in the "business", having a set of gauges is prudent however for lots of us "financial prudence" is a reality.

The fact that we don't shoot "steel gauges" in our guns...we shoot the shells that we buy or make In our dies...how can that not be equally as right for individual rifles as using gauges...the resized cases will fit our guns that we plan on using them in. Wildcatters have been fitting rifles to "modified cases" for eons, a factory or resized case is no different.
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That is all fine as long as you never choose to shoot factory ammo in your rifle. It is safer and easier to properly set the headspace using gauges and then adjust sizing die to match the chamber. Headspace gauges aren't exactly all that expensive .... especially compared to a new rifle and a trip to the emergency room to have bit of brass case removed from your face.


To take this further I think Dave's method gives me more info than a set of gauges will. The gauges are very good for "new chambering's", however for old, existing chambering's they only tell me if the bolt will close...not if the headsace has lengthened for any reason, where Daves method tells me if the headspace has changed and if so, how much.
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WRONG! A headspace gauge set typically includes bot GO & NO GO gauges. The bolt should close on the go and not close on the NO GO. If it does close on the NO GO then the chamber is too long.


Another method I use for testing headspace in every vintage lever gun I am going to shoot (mostly rimmed cartridges) is to take a hand full of empty brass, re-prime them and shoot them thru the gun. when you eject the cases you will see that the primer is protruding from the case. The amount the primer protrudes is the amount of space you have between the bolt face and cartridge face. Some people hesitate to call this "head space" but it is what it is...the space between both bolt head and cartridge head.
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This is not a very reliable method. Consider that the typical headspace dimension only spans .004" and I would highly doubt that your protruding primer method produces data that falls within that kind of tolerance.
 
Headspace is measured with steel go gauges... it is something that is set at a fixed measurement when the barrel and action/bolt are assembled.

Using anything but steel go gauges is really measuring cartridge case head clearance and does not always result in a saami spec chamber. It also will not blow a gun up, but it isn't a correct standard.

The original post: Just wondering if there is a way checking headspace with out go/no go gauges? Thanks.
 
guntech said:
Using anything but steel go gauges is really measuring cartridge case head clearance and does not always result in a saami spec chamber. It also will not blow a gun up, but it isn't a correct standard.

The original post: Just wondering if there is a way checking headspace with out go/no go gauges? Thanks.
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The OP didn't say he was fitting a new barrel. I've used the shim method with a cartridge case as a rough & ready way to check existing chambers. If the bolt closes, or comes near to closing with the shim & case, then it's off to the gunsmith to have it checked with a proper set of gauges. If the bolt won't close, then I figure I'm good to go.
 
You miss the point...
Measuring headspace is done with steel gauges made to an exact standard measurement.

Using a case and shims is only measuring that particular case head clearance in that rifle. It may be good to go but you are confusing headspace with case head clearance. Any re loader can create a case with no head clearance in a rifle with 40 thou headspace. That's why a case is not used to measure headspace.
 
Well, if you have the caliper to measure the HS on brass and a print of what the chamber should be, see if the bolt closes, if it does use tape on the brass until if doesn't close but remember a two lug action has a very powerful camming action and can crush about anything. Remove the firing pin assembly first and the ejector as well. Once you figure out where you should be go back to the HS caliper again. Enough frigging about and you should be about able to tell what you have.

Easier to buy the go gauge but you should really remove the pin and the ejector anyway to get a good feel on the thing. A one thou change in HS is easily enough to prevent the bolt from closing, with a gauge.

Why do yo need to check HS? What calibre?
 
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