of course you can
Opinions on makes please....
- Thread starter galamb
- Start date
of course you can
I have several 700s...all shoot very well and I've never had any problems with them whatsoever. I also have some Win M70s I'm very happy with. Find the gun that fits you and don't look back...any of the brands mentioned will do you just fine.
All commercially made rifles with commercially made ammunition are very safe.
In 2 locking lug actions their is no action that duplicates the extremely secure way the breech is sealed as with the 700 series. As a reloader for 55 years and a gunsmith for over 45 years I have used many rifles for many cartridges... Came close to blowing a Sako up. That was completely my fault. I have seen the results of many blow ups. I have never seen a 700 action blow up ...(I think the production numbers are over 7 million now...) and I think it has to do with the design not letting a case fail where other designs may. High pressures are not a problem until the brass ruptures, then the damage can really vary... I am sure some 700 actions may have been damaged beyond repair but I bet injuries are low. I know there have been injuries and at least one death reported with the Sako extractor conversion in a 700 failing.
I would not worry if you are buying commercially made rifles. I would be very careful with my reloading with any rifle. If you are pushing it I would recommend the 700. Obviously my personal rifles are based on the 700. No surprise.
When you look at actions, close the bolt and imagine how and where the exactor would go if it were to blow out under extreme gas pressure. Some of them are scary...
Let's just say I'm both stupid and prejudice. More on a stupid side obviously.
Now, model 700 came half a century ago. This amazing huge advantage is not used by any other major company. Every bolt action designed since then failed to see that huge advantage? How come? Because I'm stupid and prejudice, on a stupid side obviously? Moreover, countless Rem 700 actions where aftermarket fitted with sako extractors, no one sees the huge advantage, so plain to see.
Years and years of engineering, from cheap Tikkas and Howas to custom safari rifles in hm strange unsafe mauser bolts, hellish unsafe guns those are. Countless custom shops and big manufactures from all around the world. All failed to see huge advantage made by cutting costs design of dear Remington. Yet the safest most amazing action was plain to see and simpler to make then all of them.
Or maybe, just maybe, there is no advantage to speak of, apart from inferior functioning of Rem 700 extractor there was no improvement, just marketing and believe?
Lee Enfields, Mausers, Mosins in the mud and frost after all these years fire surplus old ammo and happen to be just fine without amazing Rem 700 design. Cost a huge deal more to machine - crude unproven military designs.
But Remington 700 surpasses them all, best ever made.
Not so safe bolts of lets see them:
Steyr SBS
locks to the barrel directly, 4 front 1 back lug, gas prevention bushing around the bolt head - can't hold a candle to the safest ever designed Rem 700.
Sako TGR - $4k production - can't hold a candle, not so safe.
Barrett MRAD - just junk, no "huge advantage" needed for the 338 lapua probably - outside extractor
Sig SSG 3000 - circles around many custom guns for $1500, didn't get a memo on "huge advantage". Accuracy International, stupid brits with $5k "starting from" rifles. Missed the extractor thing from 50 years ago on a budget american bolt.
And all this happens because I'm stupid and biased, on a stupid side obviously, to notice the huge advantages of the 700 design. Plus! 5.5 cents of saving on a trigger they made!
Doc Rainbow
CGN Regular
- Location
- Beautiful B.C.
x2 on that one. I like the Sako 85 Hunter in walnut too but realize higher price point. Have one in 30-06 and highly recommend it.
BeaverMeat
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nanaimo, B.C.
Yeah, well. The USMC and US Army use the Model 700 action. So there! 
I can't say anything about a TC, so I wont.
The Model 700 is OK, but not great IMHO. I've handled and shot a Model Seven in 350 RemMag and I like it allot. Mind you, that gun was made in the 80s.
A friend has a Model 111 in 7MM. Not a bad rifle, but the bolt needs a good break-in as it's a bit rough out of the box. Downside is plastic parts; magazine.
Don't have too much of an opinion about the X-bolt. Only thing I don't like is the plastic magazine.
I would go with something that's all steel and wood like your Rem 740. Plastic parts make the rifle feel cheap in my opinion. It might feel like a down grade from the days of American steel.
I can't say anything about a TC, so I wont.
The Model 700 is OK, but not great IMHO. I've handled and shot a Model Seven in 350 RemMag and I like it allot. Mind you, that gun was made in the 80s.
A friend has a Model 111 in 7MM. Not a bad rifle, but the bolt needs a good break-in as it's a bit rough out of the box. Downside is plastic parts; magazine.
Don't have too much of an opinion about the X-bolt. Only thing I don't like is the plastic magazine.
I would go with something that's all steel and wood like your Rem 740. Plastic parts make the rifle feel cheap in my opinion. It might feel like a down grade from the days of American steel.
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I looked on this website:Yeah, well. The USMC and US Army use the Model 700 action. So there!
http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm
Fun to see Savage is part of the list.
and why they copied Savage with the model 783?
http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-783/model-783.aspx
Accutrigger and barrel nut design??
Not saying, just saying !
BeaverMeat
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nanaimo, B.C.
I looked on this website:
http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm
Fun to see Savage is part of the list.
and why they copied Savage with the model 783?
http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-783/model-783.aspx
Accutrigger and barrel nut design??
Not saying, just saying !
Nah, I'm not much of a 700 fan boy. I'd rather have a savage if I were to buy new. But I don't buy new guns. I'd rather have a Mauser 98 or HVA 1600.
Edit: I forgot Winchester M70 and Weatherby Mark V and Vanguard.
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Mechanical design or a device cannot be trademarked. It can only be patented. Huge difference between a trademark and patent.
The patent you are trying to refer is US 2473373 https://www.google.ca/patents/US2473373
Filling date: year 1946
Publication date: year 1949
US patent validity terms: 17 years
This design became public domain: 48 years ago.
Your argument about patent protection or trademark on the Rem 700 bolt is totally wrong.
The patent did it's job for the first years causing companies to use other designs. I think the concerns with extractor systems contributed to the popularity of 60 degree bolt lift the the multi lug actions. The 700 extractor system may not be an official trademark but it certainly recognized as Remington.
Do you want to author a fresh thread?
Not Bruce, but I will back up that statement. I bought my 700 this year and it is awesome. Although not the quality of the rifles made back in the golden days, that can be said about most. The Remington I bought (CDL in 3-06) looked great, no blemishes, nice finish and fit. No issues anywhere and right out of the box I through a scope on it and it shoots 3 shot groups less then 1" at 100 yards. Action is smooth, no jams, miss feeds, etc... Tried a Browning X-bolt, after seeing the X-bolts and BPS Shotguns I doubt I will ever buy a Browning, very overrated.
As for the Savage, not a fan.
Thompson... don't know anything about them
Mauser claw is recognized as mauser. Everyone and their mother making mauser style actions because they good. Lee Enfield is recognized for rear locking bolt cocking on close. Recognized - no argument, anyone else doing it that way - not really. Recognized as has nothing to do with good or bad or rights on doing things.
New thread - no I don't want to figure out who believes in what. All I care is that you made an extraordinary claim about Rem 700 action being "safest ever designed with huge advantage". New people reading the thread might believe that because they don't know any better and no one else objects. But this claim is wrong.
Rem 700 has no "huge advantage" over Browning X-bolt, Tikka, Vanguard 2 by getting extractor inside the bolt. This advantage nowhere to be seen. As we now know for fact world of engineers and companies made no use of it in last 48 years. Moreover out of the box Rem 700 will be worst quality compared to the other 3.
Will it matter to an average user? Probably not. Will it be a problem - not likely. Can you gunsmith Rem700 to be a shining star - yes, with money you can gunsmith a 100 years old surplus, not a problem.
Is Rem 700 safest ever with a huge advantage IN ANYTHING - absolutely not.
Well you may not believe it but there is no other 2 lug bolt action that will seal up the breech as well as a factory 700 bolt. It's a physical fact.
And you will dispute that ... tell you what, take a factory .303 British round and fire it in a 7mm Rem Mag 98 Mauser or any other 2 locking lug bolt action. Post pictures afterwards please. I personally inspected a 700 that survived that with no damage and I had another fellow relate the same. No extractors or shrapnel flying out of a 700.
I am done with your ranting comments until you post the after pictures of the above test.
And you will dispute that ... tell you what, take a factory .303 British round and fire it in a 7mm Rem Mag 98 Mauser or any other 2 locking lug bolt action. Post pictures afterwards please. I personally inspected a 700 that survived that with no damage and I had another fellow relate the same. No extractors or shrapnel flying out of a 700.
I am done with your ranting comments until you post the after pictures of the above test.
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I vote 700, tons of pluses, aftermarket support. It is the most accurate out of the factory box rifle period. Only negatives is the haters lol and there is lots. The only factory action used by the pros is the 700. TC is smooth nice rifle but when shooting it I think for the money I could have gotten a 700. Savage is more mid range to me. Browning I can not comment on as I have not shot one.
So let me get this straight, on the one hand we have:
- A company which specifically makes and effort to make cheapest bolt and comes up with a design of Rem 700. (We know that for a fact because they didn't approve 5.5 cent extra cost on a trigger - 100% safety issue)
- A company files a patent on that design which expires 50 years ago for anyone to use, but no one does
- Huge number of Rem 700 are refitted with outside extractor. Huge number of aftermarket custom made Rem700 actions are made with outside extractors.
So in 50 years no one saw a value of that apart from cheaper to make boltface.
On the other hand we have anecdotal evidence of a Rem 700 which was fired with a wrong cartridge all together and didn't blow up. You attribute that one occurrence to the inherit huge advantage of Rem 700 action while you didn't even do the same experiment with any other rifle, but YOU THINK they will do worse.
And in order for argument to continue you can only accept me personally taking a rifle and blowing it up with a wrong ammunition? Are you serious?
Anyway, what makes you think that extractor will fly anywhere at the first place? You THINK it will? Lets watch barrel obstruction tests:
Do you see ANY extractors flying anywhere? Couple of rifles exploded to bits (Rem 700 is one of them ironically) - I don't see any extractors flying.
A-bolt totally explodes - bolt to receiver as we see practically intact:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/A-Bolt-disaster-660x406.jpg
Savage blows up - bolt is holding just fine:
http://s273.photobucket.com/user/marshalette/media/gun%20stuff/muzzle4jpg.jpg.html
But its all bs because you saw a Rem 700 chambered in 7mm rem mag ( 3,200 ft x lbf energy ) firing .303 Brit ( 2,630 ft x lbf energy = 20% less ) and it was fine. ONCE. And you never did it again with anything else, but you THINK it proves that Rem700 has a DESIGN advantage over all other 2 lugs.
Again, are you seriously presenting that as an argument for you position?
- A company which specifically makes and effort to make cheapest bolt and comes up with a design of Rem 700. (We know that for a fact because they didn't approve 5.5 cent extra cost on a trigger - 100% safety issue)
- A company files a patent on that design which expires 50 years ago for anyone to use, but no one does
- Huge number of Rem 700 are refitted with outside extractor. Huge number of aftermarket custom made Rem700 actions are made with outside extractors.
So in 50 years no one saw a value of that apart from cheaper to make boltface.
On the other hand we have anecdotal evidence of a Rem 700 which was fired with a wrong cartridge all together and didn't blow up. You attribute that one occurrence to the inherit huge advantage of Rem 700 action while you didn't even do the same experiment with any other rifle, but YOU THINK they will do worse.
And in order for argument to continue you can only accept me personally taking a rifle and blowing it up with a wrong ammunition? Are you serious?
Anyway, what makes you think that extractor will fly anywhere at the first place? You THINK it will? Lets watch barrel obstruction tests:
Do you see ANY extractors flying anywhere? Couple of rifles exploded to bits (Rem 700 is one of them ironically) - I don't see any extractors flying.
A-bolt totally explodes - bolt to receiver as we see practically intact:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/A-Bolt-disaster-660x406.jpg
Savage blows up - bolt is holding just fine:
http://s273.photobucket.com/user/marshalette/media/gun%20stuff/muzzle4jpg.jpg.html
But its all bs because you saw a Rem 700 chambered in 7mm rem mag ( 3,200 ft x lbf energy ) firing .303 Brit ( 2,630 ft x lbf energy = 20% less ) and it was fine. ONCE. And you never did it again with anything else, but you THINK it proves that Rem700 has a DESIGN advantage over all other 2 lugs.
Again, are you seriously presenting that as an argument for you position?
