Looking for input on new coyote gun

Camp Cook said:
I don't like 223 for over 150 yard shots on coyotes it kills them but definitely not with the authority that a 22-250 or 243 does.

When all you make is a marginal shot and it happens to the best of us now and then I want every bit of explosive power going off inside the coyote to DRT it.

I used my Robinson Arms XCR-L in 223 loaded with 60gr V-Max this last Sunday morning took to coyotes with it and once again saw that any shot over 150 yards just doesn't thump them with the authority like I want it to.
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Not our experience with .223's... we have taken plenty from 200-250 yards... 300 yards and over are pass up shots most of the time... we like to get them closer or lay off and reposition for another run at them later... 55 VM's do the job 90% of the time... but if we expect that wolves are a possibility, we load the 60 Partitions.
 
Hihi962 said:
Don't just consider what looks good on paper, and statistics.
I have shot many a hundred coyotes.. In real life, and have learned a few things.

-Buy a heavy barrel. Period, no question, don't even consider a light barrel...why do you think they are called varmint barrels? The thing is, if two or three dogs came out at once, what are you gonna do? Shoot once and wait for 8minutes for the barrel to cool down to save your barrel? Heck no, you'd be pounding until they are dead or out of range. Trust me, several guys in our group bought light barrels... They are all burnt out now, you just cant shoot repeatedly with a light barrel.
-Is .223 the best? Not in my opinion, but it is decent. You want a gun that is really fast, really flat, and a bullet that isnt affected by wind so much. Remember, you aren't at a 25yard indoor range here. The faster you are, the less you have to lead, the flatter, less elevation adjustment. I choose 22-250 because its like a laser beam up to 400yards. The only problem is wind affects it a bit. The ultimate coyote gun in my mind is a 6mm, a bit large, but guys in our group with them can do unimaginable things as they have bit better range and less affected by wind.
-dont be scared of a wood stock, all my guns have ###y wood stocks, if you the kind of guy to lay your gun in the snow or bang it around, you might as well buy a 30-06 savage, because you arent gonna hit anything with it anyway, i treat my gun like a new born, one guy in our group dropped his gun in the snow and didnt clean the snow out of the end of his barrel, he shot and it swelled up the end of the barrel (good thing it was a varmint barrel) he cut off 2" off the 26" barrel and it was good again.
-Which bring me to the next point, buy a long barrel, only 26" in my books. If you want to capture accuracy and as much velocity as you can buy the longest barrel you can, listen to the ladies, size does matter!

My comments arent gospel, but i have been doing it for a lot of years, and I know what works and doesnt work for our group.

And buy a simple scope, dont be one of those orangutans out there with all these 4x25 x 60scopes with more knobs and switches then a woman in her wedding dress. I use a 4x9x40mm if i could i would just get a single power scope, but they dont really make them any more. I have seen so many guys miss and waste time just by fooling with settings on their scope. Set it at 4x or 5x and leave it there, that is good for a every animal from 20 yards to 600yards.
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Thanks for the laugh.
 
Thanks for the comments fellas. I guess I'm not as close to a decision as I had thought. I hadn't really considered the Ruger M77 at all. I see they're in the same general price range as the Brownings and Tikkas. How is the Ruger trigger? And overall accuracy, for that matter?

And now I'm not so quick to rule out a 22-250. I keep hearing how the 22-250 burns out barrels and that put me off of it a bit. For those with experience with the round, how bad is it really? How many rounds can I expect to get out of a decent Sporter or heavy profile barrel under normal shooting circumstances?

Also, if I did go with a 22-250, what is the ideal twist rate? What gives the most versatility or does it matter with the round given the higher velocity?
 
look at a CZ527 american. the newer ones have a 9" twist barrel, and a single set fully adjustable trigger that's really good for longer range shots off a bipod. Almost everyone that's tried my single set trigger on my 527 is addicted to it... It's well designed, and shoots well, and feels like a much more expensive rifle.

Have a look at the 204 ruger cartridge in the cz rifle as well...
 
Personally I like the Savage line up of firearms. I've had several of their models and loved them all. (Sold due to funds and lack of hunting the past 2yrs)
Take a look at what ranges youll likely to shooting up to, and if you are walking around alot with it.

If i were to buy my ideal gun for the conditions and what Id want out of it....id get one of the savage med barrel riflez with detachable mag. In 243win. Good for gophers to deer.

I used to shoot 22-250. Loved the round. Never had any issues with it.

As for semi vs bolt i would stick to bolt action. You can still fire off rounds quick enough with a bolt action.

Thats my 2cents
 
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If their running there is nothing like a semi I'll get off 3 - 4 shots in my XCR-L in 223 to your one shot from a bolt gun most fun I can have with a gun is using a semi on coyotes when they are running.

Hoyt are you saying you get bang flops at 200 - 250 yards with a 223 thats not my experience they may now and then but mostly they spin in circles or run off a bit or drop then get back up before they hit the dust for good.

Not like a 22-250 I get bang flops out to 300 yards ever time I do my part.
 
My Tikka T3 Lite stainless matches your criteria exactly. I use it for targets at 100 & 200 yards. With hand loads, I get consistent results of 0.5-0.75 MOA. It is 1-8" twist rate which opens the door to any pill weight from 35-80gr. Action is smooth although long which I don't mind but some do.
 
22-250 is fine, no worries on being a barrel burner. Your at the range practicing just take your time and let it cool a bit between shots, if you are hunting and you get 2-3 quick shots it will not hurt the barrel at all. Only time it is an issue is if you were to dump the mag as fast as you can repeatedly over and over. I have a friend who had a Ruger tang safety M77 Varmint in 220 swift that is just a bit hotter than a 22-250 and he had thousands of rounds down the pipe on that one before he gave it to a new hunter with stronger arms and more enthusiasm to carry a heavy barrel in the field.

For rifles I think you are on the right track, Browning, Tikka, Kimber, and maybe look at the Weatherby Vanguard 2, by all reports it is a great shooter too. It really comes down what one you like the best.
 
I made a bargain with a farmer up kingston way. I get rid of his large coyote population and I could have exclusive rights on his property for the following deer season. That being said I didn't want to blow alot of money on gear and a rifle. I ended up buying a savage axis in 22-250 and I was surprised it served its purpose and then some, range and accuracy were never an issue and we took over 20 dogs that winter.
 
ddelorme68 said:
I made a bargain with a farmer up kingston way. I get rid of his large coyote population and I could have exclusive rights on his property for the following deer season. That being said I didn't want to blow alot of money on gear and a rifle. I ended up buying a savage axis in 22-250 and I was surprised it served its purpose and then some, range and accuracy were never an issue and we took over 20 dogs that winter.
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I also bought an 223 Axis on a whim. The trigger was horrible so I changed it out to a rifle basix. Other than that its a light rifle that shoots sub MOA with my handloads and is a real workable gun for walking around and stalking. I have shot coyotes as far out as 340 yards (lazered). I would not recommend a axis rather and Axis 2 or a model 11 with an Accutrigger. I could not shoot anything past 200 yards with the original trigger.
 
First if noise and farmers are no problem 22-250, 243 are good except the 22-250 in windy conditions, then 243 is way better. Many farmers don't like the noise, it makes Mrs Farmer nervous. If you're in fields miles away from anyone, noise won't matter.

Go try them all out. Some won't fit, some just feel weird in your hands, etc. Pick one that fits you and keep in mind cheekweld when you add a scope at home.

Try the actions, look at the plastic vs metal, and I'd go with box mag. You can easily/quickly change bullet style/weights

Do you call, hunt over dead farm animals etc? If they are molested many times they hang up in the next province over. Take that into consideration.
If you call unmolested coyotes, maybe a lightweight quick handling, short barrel is better, maybe not.

I use a Savage bull barrel FCPK, Rem 700 bull barrel, BAR and a Stevens sporter in the following 223,243,308 depending on the farm, the farmer and how nervous the coyotes are. I am about to buy an SL8 or XCR-L.

A bull barrel is heavy but I use a Eberlestock GunRunner on the farms I'm forced to walk in on due to winter wheat etc. so it's no big deal.

So point is..... decide your needs based on the coyotes/farmers/terrain and then pick an appropriate caliber that best fits the most parameters you will encounter.
 
Savage axis in stainless. For the money you're willing to spend you can buy 2-3 of them or more. The 223's all seem accurate. Light barrel and a set of shooting sticks. Only problem with the axis is the crappy trigger. Replace the trigger and you're good to go.
 
doc25 said:
Savage axis in stainless. For the money you're willing to spend you can buy 2-3 of them or more. The 223's all seem accurate. Light barrel and a set of shooting sticks. Only problem with the axis is the crappy trigger. Replace the trigger and you're good to go.
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You don't have to replace the trigger, just lighten up the spring and do a very light polish job. It will then have a very usable 2 to 3 pound trigger.:)
 
I just picked up a Savage Model 11/111 International Trophy Hunter XP with the accutriger in .223. It was on sale for $460CN with a $75US mail in rebate so I'm in for less then $385 plus GST. Bore sighted in scope is a joke but it will do until I find something else.
 
Camp Cook said:
Hoyt are you saying you get bang flops at 200 - 250 yards with a 223 thats not my experience they may now and then but mostly they spin in circles or run off a bit or drop then get back up before they hit the dust for good....
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I couldn't care less about "bang flops"... I don't need them and frankly, don't want them... at any range. What I do want is a precise shot and a rapidly deceased, recoverable animal.... and our .223's do that in spades at 250 yards... they would do it further, I just prefer not to shoot further... the further the target is from the muzzle the more Murphy is inclined to get involved. I leave the bang-flopping for the internet....
 
Thanks again for all of the input gents!

As for the Savage recommendations, I think I'm pretty intent on steering clear of Savage these days. I know 4 people that have bought Savage bolt action rifles in the last 2 or so years and 3 of them had QC issues right out of the box. In one case, the action was so out of true that a scope could not even be mounted. Savage did take care of him, but It took that guy almost a full year to get the replacement rifle.

Oh one more questions about caliber. Hide damage is a definite issue for me. The local Hutterites pay $25 for a coyote carcass I'd the hide is in good shape so I definity want to minimize hide damage as much as possible. Am I corect in leaning toward the .22 calibers? I've herd that .243 can be a bit destructive, no?
 
For the least hide damage I would go with 223 or 308 FMJ. FMJ rounds will do the least damage. If it wasn't for wanting FMJ I am a die hard fan of 243 for coyotes.
 
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