H4895 reduced loads. Are they practical?

[g-manz35]

I kind of want to do a bit of experimenting and burn off some excess bullets at the same time. I also am wanting to produce some reduced loads to take care of some pests around the yard. About a week ago my wife shot a coyote that was in our yard. She had in the past tried to use my 223, but found it very hard to see through the scope (couldn't get close enough to see clearly through it). She has a 7mm-08 with a youth stock she uses for deer hunting. I mounted a scope with long eye relief and it fits her well. SO rather than fighting with my 223 she takes her 7mm out and makes a mess out of that poor coyote. We typically keep the furs and want to do as little damage as possible. It is quite common that we get coyotes in closer than 50 yards and I have now decided that we should have a 22 WMR for those. Now when I went to buy ammo I realized just how expensive 22 WMR is to buy $20/50 or 40c each. I can reload my 223 down to WMR speeds for about 35c a round and 7mm reduced loads for about 50c a round.

I'm planning on using the 60% of max charge formula as described on the Hodgdons website and am hoping to run speeds of about 2000 fps out of the 223 and a bit slower in the 7mm-08. HAs anyone out there done this? I've done a fair bit of reading on other forums on this but most comments are fairly vague and are lacking in info on the end results. "I use them for plinking" is a very common comment without describing what kind of accuracy they are getting.

Can someone enlighten me as to how well this works or perhaps give me some idea of the do's and don'ts of this type of reloading?

 

[Barnes_270]

H4895 is great for this type of thing. There is a "youth loads" PDF on the Hodgdon site that lists charges for various cartridges. I use reduced loads in 243 and 308 for my kids for hunting. Accuracy can be excellent.

 

[hometownhero]

Ya I have used reduced loads with 4895. Hodgkin uses the 60% rule. Its 60% of the max load is you reduced load. I was using 16gr of h4895 in my 223. I have since picked up some trail boss and 8gr with a 40gr bullet is 2200fps. It is very quiet and very accurate. I have a load with trails that is 1670fps as well with a 40gr bullet. Now that one is very quiet.

 

[B-78]

I have a load for my one 204 with 30gr Bergers and a reduced load of H4895. I had to go a bit more than the 60% to get the groups I wanted and so as not to change my scope settings. I use this load for fox out to 100yds and doing beaver control and it does an excellent job.

 

[g-manz35]

H4895 is great for this type of thing. There is a "youth loads" PDF on the Hodgdon site that lists charges for various cartridges. I use reduced loads in 243 and 308 for my kids for hunting. Accuracy can be excellent.

I had looked at those. I wanted to load down a little more than that.

Ya I have used reduced loads with 4895. Hodgkin uses the 60% rule. Its 60% of the max load is you reduced load. I was using 16gr of h4895 in my 223. I have since picked up some trail boss and 8gr with a 40gr bullet is 2200fps. It is very quiet and very accurate. I have a load with trails that is 1670fps as well with a 40gr bullet. Now that one is very quiet.

16 gr of H4895 was going to be my starting point. What kind of velocity were you getting with that load? Was there a reason you went to Trail Boss?

I have a load for my one 204 with 30gr Bergers and a reduced load of H4895. I had to go a bit more than the 60% to get the groups I wanted and so as not to change my scope settings. I use this load for fox out to 100yds and doing beaver control and it does an excellent job.

I too will be looking at trying to load something relatively accurate. What kind of velocity where you getting with your load?

 

[jongun]

Never really considered reduced loads with rifle powder as I've been turning to pistol powders for that. I'd like to give it try for sure but 4895 is too precious to use right now in the 223 and have actually never tried it in this cartridge. 4198 has done well for me and I've got plenty of that so wonder if this 60% rule works with this powder as well.

 

[ren666]

not really part of the discussion but 20 bucks for 50 is 40 cents each, not 80. I buy winchester white box 22 wmr at crappy tire and they are about 12 bucks for 50 so 25 cents each.

 

[g-manz35]

not really part of the discussion but 20 bucks for 50 is 40 cents each, not 80. I buy winchester white box 22 wmr at crappy tire and they are about 12 bucks for 50 so 25 cents each.

Haha. Bad math on my part. I'm starting to think that I may not be capable of figuring 60% of max load (pulls trigger and blows up face).

The cost is a part of the issue, but really I'm wanting to have one gun perform two jobs. Not to mention the broad selection of bullets available all with higher B.C. than your standard 22 Mag. I also had to look at four different stores to find any 22WMR at all. IF I could buy a box for $12 I'd be all over it.

I'll load some up and post the results. Probably when it warms up above -30c

 

[hometownhero]

16 gr of H4895 was going to be my starting point. What kind of velocity were you getting with that load? Was there a reason you went to Trail Boss?
I too will be looking at trying to load something relatively accurate. What kind of velocity where you getting with your load?

I think it was around 2000fps Had to go higher to get any grouping out of it though. Ended up being around 2500fps to get a group. That was to fast for me. Was going to get some blue dot and do something like 10gr but as you know pistol powder is non existent. Then I found trail boss and can load 223 to 22lr speeds(what I wanted to do) as well as 22wmr speeds. Trail boss will do that for me. It is extremely quiet and even less recoil then a 22lr. Whats not to love.

 

[g-manz35]

So It's only -22c today so I loaded up 9 rounds 3 at 16 grains (H4895) 3 at 17gr and 3 at 18gr under a 40gr Nosler BT varmint. I set up my target at 50 yards and also set up my Crony. First of all my Crony obviously does not like the cold as it did not give me a single reading . I shot all 9 rounds and was happy with the groups, but was disappointed with how far out the POI is. The 16 gr was 1.1" low the 17gr was 2.4" low and the 18 gr was 2.8" low. There was also heavy soot on the two higher loads. I can't figure out why there is very little on the lightest load. Go figure! I think when it warms up I will try the same load under the 53 gr V maxes I have and see what happens.

 

[g-manz35]

I think it was around 2000fps Had to go higher to get any grouping out of it though. Ended up being around 2500fps to get a group. That was to fast for me. Was going to get some blue dot and do something like 10gr but as you know pistol powder is non existent. Then I found trail boss and can load 223 to 22lr speeds(what I wanted to do) as well as 22wmr speeds. Trail boss will do that for me. It is extremely quiet and even less recoil then a 22lr. Whats not to love.

Thanks for the info. I'll assume for the time being that I'm running around that 2000 fps range. Mine were also very quiet. I will load up a few more and try and shoot a magpie or two.

 

[regulate34]

I just did 60% reduced loads in my 375 Ruger yesterday.
H4895 and 225g bullets.

Kicks less then a 243win. But had a ignition delay. You could hear the firing pin and then boom.

Also incomplete burn. Will up the load and try again

 

[sunray]

Reducing the load isn't what you need to do if you want the hides. You need to change bullets. A lighter bullet will give less felt recoil.
Hornady makes a 120 HP that might do. Sierra makes a 130 Matchking that will do. Matchkings being made for target shooting and not expansion.
There's a 130 HPBT bullet specific load using H4895 on Hodgdon's site. I'd be thinking IMR4064, but only because I was that for .30 cal 168's.

 

[jongun]

Figure reducing speeds by reducing powder charges as well as proper bullet selection both help in saving fur. More than one way to skin a cat no doubt.

 

[g-manz35]

Reducing the load isn't what you need to do if you want the hides. You need to change bullets. A lighter bullet will give less felt recoil.
Hornady makes a 120 HP that might do. Sierra makes a 130 Matchking that will do. Matchkings being made for target shooting and not expansion.
There's a 130 HPBT bullet specific load using H4895 on Hodgdon's site. I'd be thinking IMR4064, but only because I was that for .30 cal 168's.

I forgot to mention that I have 3 neighbours and a public dump all less than a mile from my house so noise and ricochets are also an issue. Full load 7mm-08 with FMJ bullets would be a terrible idea in this case, but certainly a good option elsewhere.

 

[jethunter]

Ya I have used reduced loads with 4895. Hodgkin uses the 60% rule. Its 60% of the max load is you reduced load. I was using 16gr of h4895 in my 223. I have since picked up some trail boss and 8gr with a 40gr bullet is 2200fps. It is very quiet and very accurate. I have a load with trails that is 1670fps as well with a 40gr bullet. Now that one is very quiet.

Are you sure about that? I thought hodgdon's "rule" was to never go below 60% of case capacity, which is entirely different than what you said here. There is a big difference.

 

[big boar]

Perhaps its time to try cast bullets. Cost is VERY low, you NEVER run out of bullets, far cheaper than jacketed stuff, the list goes on. Most every animal on earth has been taken with cast and you can get surprisingly good accuracy. Best of luck.

 

[g-manz35]

Are you sure about that? I thought hodginson's "rule" was to never go below 60% of case capacity, which is entirely different than what you said here. There is a big difference.

Nope. 60% of max charge not Case capacity. From their website.

To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on this website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed
for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet
weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.
Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best
accuracy. However, DO NOT reduce by more than an additional 10%.