How much Alliant 2400 with Hornady 300gr XTP?

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66spitfire

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All I have is this powder and these bullets right now. Have Hornady manual, Speer, Lyman, but am unsure where to start to develop my first load. Shooting Ruger Super Redhawk 7-1/2" in 44 magnum. I just trimmed my fire formed brass to 1.275 and will use Winchester Large pistol primers. Hornady and Speer show considerably different charge rates. Is this because of the differences in their bullets? Should I just follow the 4 suggested charges from the Hornady manual? I don't have a teacher and am just being very cautious I guess.......
 
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If you don't trust either a Lyman or Speer loading manual, I'm darn sure you wouldn't trust what any of us suggested, either.
 
H4831 said:
If you don't trust either a Lyman or Speer loading manual, I'm darn sure you wouldn't trust what any of us suggested, either.
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Lyman doesnt show a bullet with 2 cannelures and the speer manual doesnt show a similar bullet either. So you are wrong, I thought I would take suggestions from people who have used this powder with this bullet. Obviously you have not so I'm not sure why you felt the need to reply with just sarcasm.....rather than some learned knowledge.Also, the hornady manual shows a max load of 2 grains less than then the Speer manual, so that's why I was looking for some experienced opinions .
 
I don't know why, like I said I am just learning and only want to exercise caution, I guess if one bullet is longer than another it may have a drastic effect on internal pressures created.....
 
You are right, it could, but bullets of the same weight using the same construction (lead core, copper jacket) will have roughly the same overall density and thus roughly the same length assuming the diameter is the same. If you seat to the listed OAL it should leave roughly the same amount of empty space inside the case. At starting loads (any starting loads really) the pressure is quite a bit below the max rated pressure for a cartridge so if there is a little less room, it wont be dangerous. Start at the starting load and work up. If one book has a starting load below the other you can choose one or the other. Personally, I tended to go with the lower one when I was first starting as I was cautious. If you are really worried you can also reduce the starting load even lower. Knocking off 10% is always perfectly safe except for loads that are already really low velocity (below 800-900fps) or black powder loads.

The Alliant site says 19.0gr as a load and don't list starting or max. This is an older way of showing load data where only the max is listed. Take 10% off of that and you have a starting load. Minimum OAL is shown as 1.665". That will usually get you to the cannalure for crimping but you can adjust and test if your bullets have the cannalure in a different place.

Firearms don't explode when they go 1psi above the max rated pressure. Most decent manufacturers proof test their firearms before shipping to 125% to 160% maximum pressure. You don't want to shoot at these pressure levels if you can avoid it but if you accidentally load one round a little hot, maybe 5-10% hot, it wont blow anything up. If one round has a really weird result (sounds extra loud, stiff to extract, quite a bit higher fps than predicted if using a chronograph, etc.) stop shooting that load.
 
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That's my point, 19 less ten percent is 17.1 and that isthe max pressure listed in the Hornady manual, that is why Imposted the question in the first place......Mwho better to trust? The powder mfg. or the bullet mfg?
 
Different equipment, different components (different lots even if the same product number), and different guns. Some people prefer to trust the bullet manufacturers data, others prefer to trust the powder manufacturers data. Which is better? I have absolutely no idea. I usually get data from both types of sources and see how big the difference is. If I'm unfamiliar with that bullet/powder/cartridge combo I'll go with the lower starting load. If I already have an idea of what is what, I'll go with my gut (often the higher starting load). So long as there is enough powder to get the bullet out of the barrel, there isn't really any risk to using a lower charge in a 44 mag with 2400 powder. You could probably go down to 10gr and it'll be dirty, low velocity, but will still "work". 2400 is WAY too fast of a powder to get a SEE (Secondary Explosive Effect) and a 44 mag doesn't have the volume for one to happen even with a slow magnum rifle powder which is the only class of powder any ballistic lab has been able to recreate a SEE with.
 
Unlike some slow pistol powders like w296 or h110, 2400 works fine at medium pressures so don't be afraid to start 10% below the lowest charges in any manuals.

Modern 2400 is faster than the old stuff by a couple grains in my experience.

The bullet has two cannelures so it can be ran in a 444 marlin or short cylindered s&w's. Make a dummy at the longer length and see if it fits your gun, otherwise go shorter.

You need an accurate chronograph to find maximum loads in your application. Even a hot loaded 44 doesn't show excessive pressure like a center fire rifle does.
 
Thank you very much for your input, I will build 6 of each in the Hornady manual working my way up and inspect the brass and try to feel the recoil differences.
 
Human sense aren't good enough to be able to tell minor recoil differences. That's why you are better off with a decent chronograph. Inspecting the brass and primers can give indicators but only if you know at what pressure certain things happen with which components. In my experience with 44 mag (36,000 psi max), a Federal primer will totally flatten within safe pressure limits but a CCI primer wont flatten until you are well above max. Winchester primers are somewhere inbetween. I've had cases stick in my 44 mag lever rifle and knew they were too hot (chronograph results) but that has to do with brass hardness, ductility, chamber smoothness, as well as pressure so there are several factors you can't easily measure.
 
66spitfire said:
And you still haven't offered anything In regards to the original question...
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Just use common sense.
All loading manuals give the charges as a guide only. As you have noticed, two will known manuals give quite a difference in the load you are concerned with. Thus, if you want to be super safe you take the starting load of the manual with the lowest loads and start there. It may be a heavy enough load for your purpose, but if you want more power, put in some more powder, but stay within the limits of the loading manual.
I think you said you have a Ruger Redhawk, the strongest revolver made in 44 magnum, so don't worry if there is a couple of grains difference in top loads in two different manuals.
 
Thank you all for your advice, I will continue to read all the forums and ask questions when I feel the need. I appreciate all the constructive responses. Please be patient with all the people who are just learning, some of you where there at one time or another. Thanks!
 
66spitfire said:
Thank you all for your advice, I will continue to read all the forums and ask questions when I feel the need. I appreciate all the constructive responses. Please be patient with all the people who are just learning, some of you where there at one time or another. Thanks!
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Well said 66 spitfire i have more than once wanted to say it myself,when i started reloading a long time ago,i did have my brother in law as a partner and i think that helped a lot just having a second person interpreting things.
I don't even think we had a manual,definitely no interweb,just a paper that came with the lee die.We are still alive with all are appendages,my .02.....bob
 
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