Twilight test
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
"In all fairness"???
Once again...totally (deliberately?) missing the point....I wasn't trying to be "fair"...I just wanted to see which of my scopes (MY SCOPES) performed best in dimming light. Again...
"It wasn't intended to be a scientific or even a fair test to determine which manufacturer makes the best twilight scope....the ambition of the test was much more modest and personal...I just wanted to compare in dimming light the few specific scopes (all relatively small lightweight low-power hunting scopes) that I actually own and use on a regular basis. I did not intend to compare all scopes or even similar or "equal" scopes. And of course the results would be different if I used different scopes...but these are the scopes I own and use...for all sorts of reasons, and not just for shooting at dawn and dusk....get it?"
Originally Posted by gunrunner8
Rob, for that test to be valid the "exit pupil" on all those scopes neeed to be equal as well.
For instance Nikon having EP=5mm (20mm:4x) is at disadvantage to Meopta (with larger internal glass as well) with EP=6mm (24mm:4x).
I bet you that if you compared your Meopta to say Bushnell 6500 1-6,5x24mm and Sightron SIII 1-7x24mm the end result of your experiment could be quite different....
Once again...totally (deliberately?) missing the point....I wasn't trying to be "fair"...I just wanted to see which of my scopes (MY SCOPES) performed best in dimming light. Again...
"It wasn't intended to be a scientific or even a fair test to determine which manufacturer makes the best twilight scope....the ambition of the test was much more modest and personal...I just wanted to compare in dimming light the few specific scopes (all relatively small lightweight low-power hunting scopes) that I actually own and use on a regular basis. I did not intend to compare all scopes or even similar or "equal" scopes. And of course the results would be different if I used different scopes...but these are the scopes I own and use...for all sorts of reasons, and not just for shooting at dawn and dusk....get it?"
Originally Posted by gunrunner8
Rob, for that test to be valid the "exit pupil" on all those scopes neeed to be equal as well.
For instance Nikon having EP=5mm (20mm:4x) is at disadvantage to Meopta (with larger internal glass as well) with EP=6mm (24mm:4x).
I bet you that if you compared your Meopta to say Bushnell 6500 1-6,5x24mm and Sightron SIII 1-7x24mm the end result of your experiment could be quite different....
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Some manufacturers have used 1" internals, including lenses, in their 30mm scopes to gain adjustment amount. In this instance, there may be a difference compared to other manufacturers using larger lenses.
It is fun...and useful in a very practical and personal way...After all, its your eyes and your scopes and you are the one who makes the decisions about which of your scopes to put on which of your rifles...its not all theory; eyes can differ markedly particularly in terms of colour transmission. I think this is of importance when actually shooting game.
I have an older model steel tube 26mm Swarovski 4X, which for my eyes at least has the best colour and in a similar twilight test I did about ten years ago appeared brighter than the modern Swarovski 4X that replaced it (just because it was 1 inch and there were more ring choices). Its in excellent shape and has a serial number on it. I asked Swarovski when it was made and they told me they had no records going back that far. Why it is such a sharp bright scope even when compared to relatively modern production is beyond me.
I do like Swarovski. A couple of decades ago my second-hand Swarovski 10X go-to hunting binocs went out of alignment. They used to get banged around quite a bit when I was hunting. I took them into town to a Swarovski binocular dealer (a camera store in Red Deer, AB). He sent them to Toronto. They sent them to Austria! There Swarovski did a major tune up. They looked like new when I got them back (it didn't take very long). How much did this cost? Nothing really. I think the camera store charged me $10. for the initial shipping to Toronto. That was it.
I have an older model steel tube 26mm Swarovski 4X, which for my eyes at least has the best colour and in a similar twilight test I did about ten years ago appeared brighter than the modern Swarovski 4X that replaced it (just because it was 1 inch and there were more ring choices). Its in excellent shape and has a serial number on it. I asked Swarovski when it was made and they told me they had no records going back that far. Why it is such a sharp bright scope even when compared to relatively modern production is beyond me.
I do like Swarovski. A couple of decades ago my second-hand Swarovski 10X go-to hunting binocs went out of alignment. They used to get banged around quite a bit when I was hunting. I took them into town to a Swarovski binocular dealer (a camera store in Red Deer, AB). He sent them to Toronto. They sent them to Austria! There Swarovski did a major tune up. They looked like new when I got them back (it didn't take very long). How much did this cost? Nothing really. I think the camera store charged me $10. for the initial shipping to Toronto. That was it.
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I'd say most. Others just went to longer 1" tubes. Regardless....the perception that a bigger tube makes a scope brighter is not the case...at least in practical terms.
The advances in glass quality and coatings have changed the brightness game 100 fold. Looking through my old high-end German/Austrian optics is like looking through muddy water compared to the new offerings from these manufacturers.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
If you're looking at a Leupold 25 mm versus 30 mm, there probably is no difference in perceived brightness.
However if you look at a top European manufacturer's 25 mm versus 30 mm scope, my experience has been that the 30 mm is always the brighter one even with the same objective size. I believe this to be so as the Europeans use larger internal lenses in their 30 mm scopes than they do in their 25 mm scopes, something North American/Japanese manufacturers haven't done yet as they seem to be more concerned with the added adjustment gained by the 30 mm tube. With many European scopes there is no added "clicks" from their 25mm to their 30mm line.
So yes, tube size can make a difference.
And I agree that the current optics from the top manufacturers are far better than they were 30 years ago, but the 30-year-old top tier optics are still way ahead of a lot of the current midrange optics.
In my experience the quality Euro 30mm scopes are brighter than the one inch offerings. That's fine but I also find 30mm scopes too heavy and bulky for my rifles, my way of hunting, etc. Even though it was the brightest, I sold the Meopta. I will be staying with one inch scopes. And my battered old 4X Swarovski is still going on my main hunting rifle. It has been doing the job of peering into twilight and finding game very well now for several decades, so I 'm going to stick with it.
