may be discharged anywhere a non restricted may be....

coldestcanuck

coldestcanuck

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I'm looking for a link to the bulletin that contains the phrase/info contained in this title. I know I've seen it but my searches and explorations of the links in the stickies aren't working for me. Can anybody help me out?
 
You would just have to look it up under the "antique firearms regulations" on the RCMP website or give them a call. I have never seen such a bulletin. Because the antique classified firearms are not considered to be firearms per se gives them some leeway. Go onto the EE and look up dingus, he will likely have what you are looking for.
 
The regs don't actually say that you can discharge an antique handgun anywhere you can discharge a non restricted. It implies it. I forget the exact wording, but it's approximately that the rule about not having an antique handgun loaded at particular spots doesn't apply. The inference being that a gun is not to be loaded unless it can be legally discharged, and therefore if it's legal to load ( and that is what the law says) then it's legal to discharge. I am however not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, and free advice is worth about what you pay for it. I'll see if I can find the exact wording. Maintain a holding pattern.
 
Here it is: Part III Chapter 39 (3) "For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107, and 117.03 of this Act, and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:
(a) any antique firearm"

Section 95.(1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, IN ANY PLACE, possesses a loaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, or an unloaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm together with readily accessible ammunition that is capable of being discharged in the firearm....(contiinues on)

Since Section 95 does NOT apply to antiques, the inference is that you CAN have a loaded antique in ANY place (non discharge municipal regulations would of course apply and negate this).
 
I am not sure it specifies any particular place that any type of gun, including non-restricted, BB guns, cork guns, etc. can be fired. Usually the law states what you cannot do, not what you can do. You just have to avoid what the law says you cannot do. Not trying to be smart here, just giving an example from another area to make a point ... nowhere in the Criminal Code does it specify that I can wear the green plaid shirt I have on today. All it says, so far as I am aware, is that I cannot walk around with no clothes at all in a public place. It does not specify what clothes it is alright to wear. From time to time on this forum I see posts asking something like, 'where does it say that I can do such-and-such'. If we only did things that were specified in the law, we had better stay in bed, although I am not aware of anywhere in the law where it states that I can stay in bed, so I might be in trouble even there.
 
This is perfect. I was just looking at this.

Dingus was saying in the bush and animal protection thread that in the application section of the Storage Display Transportation and Handling of firearms reg it stated that antiques can be used for target shooting. It may have but there have been some sections that have been repealed and I'm trying to find out what those changes are.
 
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Read the storage use and transport regs nothing has changed as far as i know the important thing to read is that almost all the sections do not apply to antiques like 1 to 14 but im guessing here i dont have it in front of me.
Its in a sticky somewhere in this BP and antique section.
Its also very confuseing i called the head B.C CFO office like 9 years ago and asked them to tell me could i target shoot with my antique handguns anywhere a non restricted could be used and after a two hour meeting they told me yes the way the regs are wrote you can discharge a antique anywhere a none restricted could be used BUT that the only reason to do so was target shooting as you cant hunt with handguns even antique ones in B.C
The Transport and use regs are very hard to follow tho. took me reading it 3 or 4 times to figger it out. thats why i called the CFO office in B.C .
 
Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations SOR/98-209

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html

"APPLICATION

2. (1) These Regulations do not apply to members of any of the following classes of persons who are acting in the course of their duties or for the purposes of their employment:
(a) peace officers;
(b) members of the Canadian Forces or of the armed forces of a state other than Canada who are attached or seconded to any of the Canadian Forces;
(c) persons training to become police officers or peace officers under the control and supervision of
(i) a police force, or
(ii) a police academy or similar institution designated by the Attorney General of Canada or the lieutenant governor in council of a province;
(d) members of a visiting force, within the meaning of section 2 of the Visiting Forces Act, who are authorized under paragraph 14(a) of that Act to possess and carry explosives, ammunition and firearms;
(e) persons or members of a class of persons employed in the public service of Canada or by the government of a province or municipality who are prescribed by the regulations made by the Governor in Council under Part III of the Criminal Code to be public officers; and
(f) chief firearms officers or firearms officers.
(2) These Regulations do not apply to the transportation or handling of a restricted firearm or a prohibited handgun by an individual in accordance with an authorization issued under section 20 of the Act, including any conditions attached to the authorization, who is carrying it
(a) to protect the life of that individual or of other individuals; or
(b) for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation.
(3) [Repealed, SOR/2004-277, s. 2]
(4) Sections 10 and 14 do not apply to firearms that are used or handled by an individual in the course of hunting from a vehicle in a location in circumstances in which it is lawful for that individual to hunt from that vehicle in that location.
(5) Sections 5 to 13 do not apply to antique firearms.
SOR/2004-277, s. 2.
3. These Regulations do not apply to the storage and transportation of a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun in the course of transmission by post within Canada from the time the firearm or handgun is posted to the time it is delivered to the addressee, within the meaning of subsection 2(2) of the Canada Post Corporation Act, or returned to the sender.
SOR/2004-277, s. 3.
4. [Repealed, SOR/2012-262, s. 1]"

Jump to 14:

"ANTIQUE FIREARMS

14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.

HANDLING OF FIREARMS

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.

SHIPPING BY POST

16. An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
SOR/2004-277, s. 4.
OFFENCE

17. For the purpose of paragraph 117(o) of the Act, it is an offence to contravene section 13.
COMING INTO FORCE

18. These Regulations come into force on December 1, 1998.
SOR/98-471, s. 19."



So is it #15 that allows us to use an antique given the individual provincial etc regs? Once loaded an antique becomes a firearm?
 
Thanks for the comments and excerpts folks. I have all the posted info already, but I guess I was under the mistaken impression that the wording I was looking or was actually published in the form of an official bulletin somewhere. I carry all the applicable sections of the Act/CC (shrunk down to half size) in a pouch whenever I am packing one of my antiques and, was hoping to add a copy of this bulletin. Thanks again everyone!
 
THX1139 said:
Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations SOR/98-209

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html

"APPLICATION

2. (1) These Regulations do not apply to members of any of the following classes of persons who are acting in the course of their duties or for the purposes of their employment:
(a) peace officers;
(b) members of the Canadian Forces or of the armed forces of a state other than Canada who are attached or seconded to any of the Canadian Forces;
(c) persons training to become police officers or peace officers under the control and supervision of
(i) a police force, or
(ii) a police academy or similar institution designated by the Attorney General of Canada or the lieutenant governor in council of a province;
(d) members of a visiting force, within the meaning of section 2 of the Visiting Forces Act, who are authorized under paragraph 14(a) of that Act to possess and carry explosives, ammunition and firearms;
(e) persons or members of a class of persons employed in the public service of Canada or by the government of a province or municipality who are prescribed by the regulations made by the Governor in Council under Part III of the Criminal Code to be public officers; and
(f) chief firearms officers or firearms officers.
(2) These Regulations do not apply to the transportation or handling of a restricted firearm or a prohibited handgun by an individual in accordance with an authorization issued under section 20 of the Act, including any conditions attached to the authorization, who is carrying it
(a) to protect the life of that individual or of other individuals; or
(b) for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation.
(3) [Repealed, SOR/2004-277, s. 2]
(4) Sections 10 and 14 do not apply to firearms that are used or handled by an individual in the course of hunting from a vehicle in a location in circumstances in which it is lawful for that individual to hunt from that vehicle in that location.
(5) Sections 5 to 13 do not apply to antique firearms.
SOR/2004-277, s. 2.
3. These Regulations do not apply to the storage and transportation of a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun in the course of transmission by post within Canada from the time the firearm or handgun is posted to the time it is delivered to the addressee, within the meaning of subsection 2(2) of the Canada Post Corporation Act, or returned to the sender.
SOR/2004-277, s. 3.
4. [Repealed, SOR/2012-262, s. 1]"

Jump to 14:

"ANTIQUE FIREARMS

14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.

HANDLING OF FIREARMS

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.

SHIPPING BY POST

16. An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
SOR/2004-277, s. 4.
OFFENCE

17. For the purpose of paragraph 117(o) of the Act, it is an offence to contravene section 13.
COMING INTO FORCE

18. These Regulations come into force on December 1, 1998.
SOR/98-471, s. 19."



So is it #15 that allows us to use an antique given the individual provincial etc regs? Once loaded an antique becomes a firearm?
Click to expand...

The way this ^^^ is posted/ layed out is very helpfull with # 15 in green.
I saved/filed this as its a great way to explain the use part rather than saying to read the entire 18 sections and figger it out this makes it way less confuseing. good work.
 
the trouble is that it does not actually say how an antique is classed for the purposes of "where it is legal to discharge". I think the best argument in favour of classification for the purposes of shooting is that the transportation rules seem to treat the antique as a non restricted gun rather than as a restricted one. If the regs required it to be additionally in a locked case, one might argue that it was being treated as a restricted gun

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
the trouble is that it does not actually say how an antique is classed for the purposes of "where it is legal to discharge". I think the best argument in favour of classification for the purposes of shooting is that the transportation rules seem to treat the antique as a non restricted gun rather than as a restricted one. If the regs required it to be additionally in a locked case, one might argue that it was being treated as a restricted gun

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

see 14(3). no mention of a trigger lock though
 
Although the OP seems satisfied this thread made me question if #15

"HANDLING OF FIREARMS

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws."

Can this be read as

"HANDLING OF FIREARMS

15. An individual may load a antique handgun or handle a loaded antique handgun only in a place where the antique handgun may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws."

Well the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms SOR/98-464 for use in in subsection 84(1) and to subsection 117.15(1) of the Criminal Code lists as an antique firearm:
6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.
7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

Antique firearms are exempt from sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of the criminal code. These exemption provide the grounds to acquire them without a licence, to import or export them, transfer them, as well as protection from seizure on failure to produce authorization and other conditions that are applied to restricted firearms. Of note is the exemption from #93:

"Possession at unauthorized place

93. (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, being the holder of an authorization or a licence under which the person may possess a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or prohibited ammunition, possesses the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition at a place that is
(a) indicated on the authorization or licence as being a place where the person may not possess it;
(b) other than a place indicated on the authorization or licence as being a place where the person may possess it; or
(c) other than a place where it may be possessed under the Firearms Act.

Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Exception

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who possesses a replica firearm."

So my conclusion is that as long as you don't conceal it, don't use it as a weapon or threaten anyone with it, follow the transport reg then your only bound by the Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.




That's my conclusion but it's by no means to be construed as legal advice. Do your own due diligence and please point out any errors I may have made.
 
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A few years back someone here on CGN came up with a great summery of the various regulations concerning antique firearms. Can't remember who posted it but I ran off a copy, filled it out and have it with me anytime I have my antique pistol with me.


ANTIQUE FIREARM STATUS

This firearm meets the definition of an "antique firearm" as set out in the Criminal Code of Canada under subsection 84(1). Pursuant to subsection 84(3)(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada "antique firearms" are deemed not to be a firearm.

For the purposes of sections 91 -95 of the Criminal Code of Canada possession of any "antique firearm" without a licence or registration certificate is legal. Possession of any "antique firearm" at any location including being in a motor vehicle is legal. Being in possession of a loaded "antique firearm" or one with ammunition that is readily accessible is legal even if the person is not the holder of any licence, registration certificate, ATT, or ATC.

Under section 117.03 of the Criminal Code of Canada no peace officer who finds a person in possession of any "antique firearm" is authorized to demand that the person present a licence, registration certificate, ATT, or ATC.

The Definition of an Antique:
 any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, and that has not been re-designed to discharge such ammunition, or
 any firearm prescribed to be an antique firearm

The following firearms are prescribed to be antique firearms under the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms, SOR/98-464:

Black Powder Reproductions:
 of a flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearm, other than a handgun, manufactured after 1897 Rifles:
 manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;  manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges (whether with a smooth or rifled bore), have a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine

Shotguns:
 manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
 manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than 10, 12, 16, 20, 28, or 410 gauge cartridges

Handguns:
 manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
 manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges

Make:

Model:

Caliber:

Serial Number:

Year of Manufacture:
 
bush1 said:
A few years back someone here on CGN came up with a great summery of the various regulations concerning antique firearms. Can't remember who posted it but I ran off a copy, filled it out and have it with me anytime I have my antique pistol with me.
Click to expand...

That's my antique status letter, available for download in .PDF format here.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/5599337/canadianantiquefirearmstatusletter2-pdf-10k?da=y

35mpett.jpg
 
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