What kind of shooters are these old girls? What kind of groups are you achieving or what have you witnessed by others? I am referring to a milsurp M 96 which may have been bedded in a modern synthetic stock and possibly has an aftermarket trigger such as a Timney while retaining the original barrel and action. Are they capable of MOA or better?
model 1896 Swedish Mauser 6.5 x 55
- Thread starter quaticman
- Start date
Potentially they are excellent assuming that the bore is in good shape, the sights are tight and the bedding is as per spec. The 6.5x55 is a very accurate ctg and has been used for competitive shooting for a long time.
To illustrate with 2 rifles.
-rifle #1 is a stock, as issued M1896. 3 shot 100 yd groups with handloads using the 142gr Sierra match bullet run from .9 to 2.5 inches
-rifle #2 is an FSR M1896 target rifle, as issued except for a rear diopter sight. 3 shot 100 yd groups with the 142gr Sierra run from .8 to 1.8 inches.
To illustrate with 2 rifles.
-rifle #1 is a stock, as issued M1896. 3 shot 100 yd groups with handloads using the 142gr Sierra match bullet run from .9 to 2.5 inches
-rifle #2 is an FSR M1896 target rifle, as issued except for a rear diopter sight. 3 shot 100 yd groups with the 142gr Sierra run from .8 to 1.8 inches.
The 96 Swede and the K31 Swiss are the two most accurate of the older military rifles. If the question is will they compete with new sporting rifles I would say not quite but close.
You would have to scope one (scoped,bedded and handloads) to really see what it can do.
Enjoy.
You would have to scope one (scoped,bedded and handloads) to really see what it can do.
Enjoy.
The reason I asked is that I have an M 96 Swedish Mauser. It sits in a Butler Creek composite stock with the action bedded with devcon.
The military trigger was replaced with a Timney and it wears a Nikon Pro Staff 4-12 X 42 scope with Warne Maxima rings. The barrel and action are original. I have fired only around 50 rounds or so with respectable groups of around 1.25" with Remington factory ammo. I believe that with carefully worked up hand loads it will do much better.
The military trigger was replaced with a Timney and it wears a Nikon Pro Staff 4-12 X 42 scope with Warne Maxima rings. The barrel and action are original. I have fired only around 50 rounds or so with respectable groups of around 1.25" with Remington factory ammo. I believe that with carefully worked up hand loads it will do much better.
If its shooting that well with factory ammo I have no doubt it will do better with hand loads. So many variables you can mess around with like powder, bullet type, oal, etc. Reloader 22 is the most common powder to go to for this one, but I've had my best results so far with imr 4831.
If you are getting 1.25 inch groups with a M/96 Swede, you are doing all right.
50 years ago, the "Standard" for Sporting rifles was a two inch, five round group. This was acceptable hunting accuracy. Today, we have factory production rifles that are "guaranteed" to shoot three round groups of under one inch.
What you have is really a "Sporting" rifle, for shooting Big Game. The accepted standard killing area for a Deer is usually a 12 inch circle in the heart and lungs area. This is still true today as it was back in the 1900s or 1950s as Deer have more or less stayed the same size. No matter what you see in the fantasy of television outdoor programs, the PRACTICAL killing range for a Big Game animal is 300 yards with most of our cartridges today. In fact, from experience over 60 years, hunting across this Country, about 85% of my shots have been less than 100 yards. 300 yards translates to a 4 inch group at 100 yards and if we cut that in half to allow for aiming errors, we still end up with a two inch group.
Perhaps these Gun Makers of older years knew a bit of practical accuracy when they accepted two inch groups for a standard.
The m/96 Mauser design is over 120 years old; if we accept the m/94 Carbine with the same action as a starting point. Actually, we should include earlier Mausers in this as the m/94 and m/96 were small modifications over the basic design. It is not quite reasonable to expect the same accuracy out of a rifle of this old design as compared to a modern rifle that incorporates all the improvements that has been learned over the last 120 years. If this is expected, then we should all be driving Model A Fords at 150 km/hour today.
We also have to look at the INTENDED use for such rifles. They were designed to be fairly simple and robust, to be used (and abused) by ordinary Soldiers, on a target that measures about 18 inches wide and 66 inches high. We also, to get a clear idea of these rifles, have to go back in time to a point in History that they were conceived and produced. At that time, Military Rifles were one of the most highly developed firearms that were made for that INDIVIDUAL Country's needs and purposes.
As an example of this thinking, let us look at the Italian Carcano rifle, a firearm that many regard, even today, with a bit of looking down at. BUT, for the time, use and purpose, the Carcano was an ideal Military rifle. Before 1900, when we look at Italy, just where did a real or perceived threat to that country come from? The answer to that is Austria. What Italy needed was a small calibre rifle, with good long range ballistics, and an adequate bullet that would penetrate an Austrian Greatcoat, in the Mountains. The smaller cartridge allowed more ammunition and supplies to be carried under these conditions, while giving more than adequate ballistics and penetration.
Too many people today tend to compare our modern firearms and their advantages, with older designs and makes of weapons. They also expect to get the same results, but it is in most cases, simply unreasonable to expect present day standards and performance from these older but still functional pieces.
50 years ago, the "Standard" for Sporting rifles was a two inch, five round group. This was acceptable hunting accuracy. Today, we have factory production rifles that are "guaranteed" to shoot three round groups of under one inch.
What you have is really a "Sporting" rifle, for shooting Big Game. The accepted standard killing area for a Deer is usually a 12 inch circle in the heart and lungs area. This is still true today as it was back in the 1900s or 1950s as Deer have more or less stayed the same size. No matter what you see in the fantasy of television outdoor programs, the PRACTICAL killing range for a Big Game animal is 300 yards with most of our cartridges today. In fact, from experience over 60 years, hunting across this Country, about 85% of my shots have been less than 100 yards. 300 yards translates to a 4 inch group at 100 yards and if we cut that in half to allow for aiming errors, we still end up with a two inch group.
Perhaps these Gun Makers of older years knew a bit of practical accuracy when they accepted two inch groups for a standard.
The m/96 Mauser design is over 120 years old; if we accept the m/94 Carbine with the same action as a starting point. Actually, we should include earlier Mausers in this as the m/94 and m/96 were small modifications over the basic design. It is not quite reasonable to expect the same accuracy out of a rifle of this old design as compared to a modern rifle that incorporates all the improvements that has been learned over the last 120 years. If this is expected, then we should all be driving Model A Fords at 150 km/hour today.
We also have to look at the INTENDED use for such rifles. They were designed to be fairly simple and robust, to be used (and abused) by ordinary Soldiers, on a target that measures about 18 inches wide and 66 inches high. We also, to get a clear idea of these rifles, have to go back in time to a point in History that they were conceived and produced. At that time, Military Rifles were one of the most highly developed firearms that were made for that INDIVIDUAL Country's needs and purposes.
As an example of this thinking, let us look at the Italian Carcano rifle, a firearm that many regard, even today, with a bit of looking down at. BUT, for the time, use and purpose, the Carcano was an ideal Military rifle. Before 1900, when we look at Italy, just where did a real or perceived threat to that country come from? The answer to that is Austria. What Italy needed was a small calibre rifle, with good long range ballistics, and an adequate bullet that would penetrate an Austrian Greatcoat, in the Mountains. The smaller cartridge allowed more ammunition and supplies to be carried under these conditions, while giving more than adequate ballistics and penetration.
Too many people today tend to compare our modern firearms and their advantages, with older designs and makes of weapons. They also expect to get the same results, but it is in most cases, simply unreasonable to expect present day standards and performance from these older but still functional pieces.
I was out this morning using my M1896, now I'm reloading 150 grain cast lead bullets (gas checked) using Red Dot and getting 1,392 fps and 2 1/4" groups at 100 yards. I'm planning on doing some tweeking with the load later in the spring, but I'm very happy with the potential accuracy. When I start tweeking the loads I think I'll try it with Unique also.
Do you cast your own or buy them from somebody? I'd love to find a source for cast for my swede. Actually I need a new source altogether because it doesn't look like R&R Bullets will be casting 314299 for my Enfield anymore.
The final military ctg for the 6.5x55, featuring a 139gr spitzer bullet, was adopted in 1941. It was called the ` torped`(torpedo) bullet by reason of it`s long torpedo-like profile. I think that the 142gr Sierra match bullet mimics the shape of this bullet, and perhaps that is why it does so well in the 6.5x55. I get similar accuracy results with this bullet using both IMR4831 and IMR4064(AKA the universal military propellant).
I have searched for a source of cast 6.5x55 mm all over Canada. I ended up buying a Lyman 150 grain mold from Buffalo Arms and I get a friend to cast me about 400-435 bullets a couple of times a year.
