So What About This Red Dot Nonsense On Handguns?

[Stephen1546]

I have an RMR on my one of my M&P and enjoy it. There is a learning curve with a red-dot on a pistol (unlike a rifle where you get to use your cheekweld). With practice it is just as fast as iron sights and (for me at least) more accurate. I used to shoot pistols with my left eye, but after shooting a red dot and having my astigmatism turn the dot into a blurry line, I re-trained to shoot with my right eye.


Obligatory pic of my M&P.

 

[BCRider]

For those of you with the astigmatism have you tried some of the more expensive red dots...I have a buddy that has an aimpoint on his AR and it seemed to be fine for me...but looking thru a cheaper Burris the other day I noticed the elongated dot as well...wondered if there is any correlation to the price and quality of the units

The sights do project the dot onto a semi mirrored lens to get the dot to appear both in focus and at infinity to your eye. A cheaper sight will certainly not have as good a lens and possibly as even a mirror coating. So it's not that unlikely that cost and clarity will go together.

The other issue is that if you're looking at the dot with a surface directly in front of the sight then your eyes are not really focused far enough into the distance for the dot to be in focus. When evaluating a red dot you want to look through the sight at a fairly distant wall or object. Like at LEAST 10 yards away or more. If you focus on the body of the sight itself your eye won't be in focus for the dot.

 

[One Lung Wonder]

Hmpffffffff.

That is actually a pretty slick looking ride Stephen. Have you ever shot any slow fire bullseye with that rig? What kind of groups can you get with it?

 

[plinker 777]

The biggest learn curve I have is with sights I focus on the front blade and how it correlates/situated in the rear sight, and fire against a blurred target. With a red dot, my focus is the target, both eyes open. I treat the red dot like a laser pointer on the target. My understanding is this is the correct way to use a red dot (parallax rectified)...Have I been led down the garden path? I was told not to look thorough the body of a red dot as if it were a scope.

 

[twoicebergs]

I tried out my Burris FF3 today for the first time on my S&W CORE. This was the first time I have had a few of the bullets go exactly through the same hole. So perhaps the red dot may actually have more merit than I was willing to give it credit for. Rapid fire seems to be pretty good using the dot to pick up the aim-point.

 

[lejarretnoir]

I need corrective lenses for distance, so both eyes open, quicker acquisition and more accuracy.
Yes, it's the only way for me. Plan to put one on most of my pistols.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

I put a burris fast fire 2 on my FNX 45 Tac fun to use easy to install and LCF is high and why the hell not

 

[thunderhand]

I am i correct in understanding for an M+P 40 , you would need some kind of rear sight replacement mount for one of these optics ? The description on some of the websites says picatinny mount.. The standard m+p 40 has no way to mount this that i can see . Can you suggest a rear sight mount
sorry dont mean to hijack thread

 

[BCRider]

Using a web search for "handgun red dot sight" and then looking at images there seems to be a wide variety of mounting methods. Some are using the rear dovetail as a full or partial mounting point while most others require drilling and tapping for a form fitting base plate. And one fairly common option for Glocks uses both a milled seat and drilling and tapping. So it's a bit of a dog's breakfast but it seems that there are options other than picatinny.

 

[Stephen1546]

I am i correct in understanding for an M+P 40 , you would need some kind of rear sight replacement mount for one of these optics ? The description on some of the websites says picatinny mount.. The standard m+p 40 has no way to mount this that i can see . Can you suggest a rear sight mount
sorry dont mean to hijack thread

The easiest way to go is to buy a CORE series and sell your old pistol (or even better keep it). You can have the slide milled out, but that's a lot of work. Even better, with a CORE and suppressor sights, you can still co-witness the iron sights.

 

[trky chsr]

Wear your distance corrective glasses and it'll sharpen right up. You'll also be able to see the target better.

That's not entirely true. I have astigmatism and wear corrective lenses (which give me 20/20) and with some red dots it will sharpen it, others it won't. I find with reflex sights (I had a Fastfire) I could not see a sharp dot but with tube-type sights (I now have a Vortex Sparc) it is sharp. I have looked through the Bushnell TRS line of dots and they are nice and sharp. Of course your mileage my vary TC

 

[lejarretnoir]

That's not entirely true. I have astigmatism and wear corrective lenses (which give me 20/20) and with some red dots it will sharpen it, others it won't. I find with reflex sights (I had a Fastfire) I could not see a sharp dot but with tube-type sights (I now have a Vortex Sparc) it is sharp. I have looked through the Bushnell TRS line of dots and they are nice and sharp. Of course your mileage my vary TC

I like the Vortex Razor 3MOA dot. The EOTech style holographic sight was useless to me though.

 

[thunderhand]

The easiest way to go is to buy a CORE series and sell your old pistol (or even better keep it). You can have the slide milled out, but that's a lot of work. Even better, with a CORE and suppressor sights, you can still co-witness the iron sights.

While I like your suggestion, and most issues can be solved by purchasing a new firearm, even the non firearm related issues. Car running rough, purchase new firearm, Boss giving you too much overtime , purchase a new firearm. Like women with buying shoes.
I'm happy with my original m&p, just looking at options

 

[Stephen1546]

While I like your suggestion, and most issues can be solved by purchasing a new firearm, even the non firearm related issues. Car running rough, purchase new firearm, Boss giving you too much overtime , purchase a new firearm. Like women with buying shoes.
I'm happy with my original m&p, just looking at options

"Buy new pistol" really is the solution to all life's problems.

 

[Stephen1546]

Hmpffffffff.

That is actually a pretty slick looking ride Stephen. Have you ever shot any slow fire bullseye with that rig? What kind of groups can you get with it?

I'm far from a great bullseye shooter, but the red dot has tightened up my groups for sure. It's no replacement for proper shooting technique, but I am an average shooter and have been shooting pistols for a few years now and do think it makes me more accurate. Of course, lots of better shooters than me could make the same groups (and MUCH better) with iron sights.

 

[KevinB]

I've been running MRDS on my pistols for over 2 years now. They excel at a number of things, but also have some cons.

Draw -- you do need to ensure you have a high presentation - basically I draw and elevate the level pistol right up in front of my face - then start my push/press out. This allows much faster acquisition of the dot -- after a few thousand reps, it is quicker to pick up than irons.

Rapid Strings of fire -- with the slide mounted MRDS, you will loose the dot under recoil, so you either end up slowing down to reacquire or slide indexing.

Accuracy - depending on your MRDS, and how you run the intensity, as well as distance shooting, some will see massive gains over irons, or a degradation. Inside 10m I find I am often not as precise with the MRDS guns, as I am with irons, but 10-200m I am much better with the MRDS.

Low Light - the MRDS is much easier to use

Moving (Shooter, Target, or Both) like a CCO on a carbine, all you need to do is put the dot on the target, I find it much more effective than irons.

GasMask -- MRDS kills irons, more doubly so in a smoke/gas filled structure.

NODS - MRDS is stupid easy to align thru ANVIS googles, I can shoot the same scores as my day quals at night wearing googles with a MRDS, times are a tad slower - but due to the view field in the ANVIS.

Shield Work -- the MRDS shines like a mo-fo if your LE using a Shield, I generally don't like Shields (they don't stop rifles), but for interior work domestically, they are pretty good (and some exterior situations) and the MRDS allows timely and accurate usage - unlike irons.



I run a MRDS on my Carry Gun, my BUG, and my SWAT pistol (which I also carry everyday).


These days many Mil SMU's are using (or giving options for) MRDS on their handguns, and a lot of the vanilla SOF units, and LE SWAT entities are doing it well.

As long as one understands the downsides, they are an exceptional tool.



Last comment -- ensure you use a slide milled for the MRDS, the dovetail mounts in addition to being higher and more awkward do not mount the MRDS securely into the slide, and cause premature failure due to the increased G load on the optic -- handgun slides have some nasty G loads, so you do not want to make it worse.

 

[lejarretnoir]

Thanks Kevin for the real experience of the MRDS. I know it works for me.

 

[Dietz]

I have astigmatism and don't wear glasses. If I concentrate on the dot, it's all blown out. However if I concentrate on the target (both eyes open) and put the dot on target, the blur is much improved. (but not perfect)

Every person with astigmatism sees the dot differently. It depends on the red dot too. The vortex sparc looks like a star to me while my Micro looks like a dot, unless I crank the brightness way up there.

They're good for people who have a bad eye, too. My left eye is well above 100% (even tho I wear glasses my vision is well above the genral pop, according to my hot optometrist), but my right eye alone isn't worth #### at any kind of distance, so I can't shoot in any other way than both eyes open, focusing on the target, the sights are a blurr. That's where red dots shine, you have a crisp and clear sighting solution when you're focusing on the target.

It's the perfect handgun sighting solution if you ask me.


I would love to mount an RMR on my Glock, but I don't know of anyone who does the milling work (properly, with experience) in Canada.

 

[plinker 777]

^

 

[Popeye_000]

I'm finding I really enjoy the red dot as a tool for improving my trigger control. With irons, I'll notice if I screw up the trigger pull but when I go look at the target I always think "I didn't think it was that bad...". With the red dot, I see the dot take a dive as I pull the trigger which really helps while practising.

Additionally, I find it's more accurate for me, but it took a lot of practise to acquire the dot on the draw. Dry firing at home and shooting for fun, the draws were fine but the first time I brought it to an IPSC match I must have spent a good 5s looking like an idiot trying to find my dot.