Hunting/bush shooting with an antique handgun: Law vs experience

[dingus]

And nothing here precludes the discharge of an antique handgun, any more than it precludes the discharge of a non-restricted firearm.

Yes thats true its very confuseing thats why after reading the rules 9 years or so ago and calling the B.C CFO head office i asked can i discharge (target shoot) my antique handguns where i can target shoot with my non restricteds.
They told me to call back later after they had a meeting and told me the way the transport and use and storage regs are wrote yes i could discharge my antique handguns.
You cant hunt with them tho not in B.C but they said i could shoot at targets.
I never herd anything since that phone call to tell me anything diffrent.
I felt from them they did not want to tell me yes i could but the way the rules are wrote you can.
I was just as confused by the regs as anyone else thats why i called and asked.
That is part of there job to explain things that are not clear and this for sure falls under not clear.

I think Mooncoon and win 3855s and wallys ^ ideas are true and good posts,,, if you do it dont be stupid about it.
be carefull i do almost all my antique shooting at a range where i can relax that way when im camping i know where my guns shoot what there capable of and i dont have to be fireing off a bunch of rounds in the bush for no good reason.
Its the general public that dont know about the antique gun rules so if they see you shooting a handgun at targets in the bush there gona call the cops 9 times outa 10 and the cops arnt sure either so best to avoid the entire situation in the first place.
Be carefull dont conceal but dont show off either.
I carry my gun in a flap holster on a shoulder strap that way if i happen to run into a hiker or mom and kids i can spin my holster around my back. i back off the trail with my Dogs and let them by.
there all scared of the dogs so dont even look at me that much and scurry past fast.
I dont think anyone ever knew i had a gun with me yet it was not concealed either.

This question only comes up alot because its not clear or easy to understand.
all this info is in the stickys tho.

 

[skneub]

Thanks to you guys ^^

Learning lots

 

[THX1139]

Well if it's in the stickies I think it should be recompiled, reposted and locked.

 

[Sharps '63]

We are still waiting for a report of someone using an "antique" revolver in the boonies and either being seen by private citizens or a LEO.

I'm not talking about a fellow hunter, but an eco-freak tree hugger of the urban variety. They are not likely to know or care that you are not breaking the law. For that matter, neither will the rank & file LEO.

The likely outcome in either case will be the shooter face down in the dirt under drawn guns while he vigorously protests, asking to show the appropriate paper work which he had the foresight to carry with him.

No one is anxious to be the first ..... Any such incident could result in the closure of this loop hole.

 

[Can-down]

I'm still waiting for a report of a cougar or charging bear shot dead with an antique.

 

[H Wally]

We are still waiting for a report of someone using an "antique" revolver in the boonies and either being seen by private citizens or a LEO.

I'm not talking about a fellow hunter, but an eco-freak tree hugger of the urban variety. They are not likely to know or care that you are not breaking the law. For that matter, neither will the rank & file LEO.

The likely outcome in either case will be the shooter face down in the dirt under drawn guns while he vigorously protests, asking to show the appropriate paper work which he had the foresight to carry with him.

No one is anxious to be the first ..... Any such incident could result in the closure of this loop hole.

Only thing I can say is credible paperwork on hand, a very solid understanding of antique law and the ability to explain the law politely and in a friendly manner is important.

 

[Brutus]

I worry about legislative undue attention. Some provinces have recently clarified rules in their hunting regulations, merely because well intentioned persons from special interest groups pointed out a "loophole" in hunting regulations.

And the SCC recently ruled on air guns as one disturbing example. These changes are never in favor of the well intentioned user.

Hhmm

 

[rjf1963]

I'm still waiting for a report of a cougar or charging bear shot dead with an antique.

Or by tossin a rock, I would rather take my chances with the antique

 

[Win 38-55]

When you say 'customs' I assume that's not US to Canada? I was under the impression that exporting even antique handguns is a huge pain in the ass...

I was talking about bringing antique handguns into Canada. As I said before, with documentation in hand I've never had a problem. I've also shipped a few antiques from Canada to the USA with no problem whatsoever .... documentation in an envelope taped to the outside of the box marked 'For Customs'. In short, never any problems either way, but I supplied documentation. Now back to the original question ... with regard to Sharps' 63 still daring someone to have a run-in with the public ... hopefully there never will be such an incident if people exercise discretion.

 

[pcvando]

Its an Antique. So discharge is the same as Non-restricted. All hunting regs apply. So that caliber on the handgun better be big enough for the game it intends to be hunting.

 

[pcvando]

I was talking about bringing antique handguns into Canada. As I said before, with documentation in hand I've never had a problem. I've also shipped a few antiques from Canada to the USA with no problem whatsoever .... documentation in an envelope taped to the outside of the box marked 'For Customs'. In short, never any problems either way, but I supplied documentation. Now back to the original question ... with regard to Sharps' 63 still daring someone to have a run-in with the public ... hopefully there never will be such an incident if people exercise discretion.

Shipping Antiques is no problem. You are absolutely right. I have done this many times.

 

[drslav]

I have had a situation where OPP officer showed up while Myself and one lady friend were shooting an antique pistol. It was a cap and ball single shot boot gun and he has heard it fire as he came out of the vehicle, He made a joke about it being loud and asked if we were target practicing. I said: yes with a little antique gun. Then he asked whether we made a 911 call. We said no and he asked my friend if she was ok and then he left as quickly as he knew everything was ok and call was unrelated to us. Did not investigate anything related to the antique. I imagine if the call was in regard to us it may have gone differently. We were in fact on private property where i have permission to shoot.
Now as far as the status and shooting goes the law is clear. An antique is deemed not to be a firearm so if you are shooting it it is not a firearm you are shooting. Storage display and transport still applies to prevent theft as said on the letter. As for public... well i brought my antique to the show. Although there were few people selling antiques as always since this looked different ( lebel 1892) we were told few times by licensed gun owners that we cant display it like that ( no locked case or chain). I did have a trigger lock regardless of the fact that none of the antique vendors were required to by the CFO inspectors. And i had the letter visible stating its an antique. People cant read but think they know it all. Yet at the certain gun store staff told me that if you load an antique it looses its status. NOT true. No such law exists.. It is the change of status if the antique is used with criminal intent. Becomes a weapon just like a 2x4 piece of wood or a plastic toy gun. That is the only difference.

 

[Brutus]

Its an Antique. So discharge is the same as Non-restricted. All hunting regs apply. So that caliber on the handgun better be big enough for the game it intends to be hunting.

Why are you bringing up the moot subject of caliber, for something that is not officially recognized as a hunting tool??

curious

 

[tiriaq]

... Yet at the certain gun store staff told me that if you load an antique it looses its status...

A number of years ago, there was this provision. If you intended to shoot an antique, you were supposed to register it, get a conveyance, etc.
The law changed quite some time ago.

 

[Polar_Hunter]

,,,,,,,,, And i had the letter visible stating its an antique. ,,,,

Where did you get the "letter"? Just wondering how much, and what kind, of proof is required. I did not get any documentation of any kind with my "Ajax Army" 44 when I got it so I did research myself. I printed a copy from the RIA gun auction of an 1883 with serial number 5015 (mine is 5002) an I found evidence to indicate that the vendor who the Ajax Army was made for, E.C. Meacham was out of business by Dec 2 1887. Is that enough or do in need something else?

 

[antiqueguy]

Its an Antique. So discharge is the same as Non-restricted. All hunting regs apply. So that caliber on the handgun better be big enough for the game it intends to be hunting.

here in Ontario no such caliber restrictions it just has too be centerfire/muzzleloader for big game that said antique handguns are not powerful enough for big game

 

[mooncoon]

A number of years ago, there was this provision. If you intended to shoot an antique, you were supposed to register it, get a conveyance, etc.
The law changed quite some time ago.

I am not sure that was actually written into law but think that it was actually another one of those policy issues. A year or two after the passing of C68, I emailed Richard Fritza or asked the NFA to ask him on my behalf (can't remember as he was quite active in the NFA at the time) what section of law under the old rules required registration of an antique if it was being shot. The answer came back that Fritza did not know of any law under the old system that made that requirement. I did register an original Charleville pistol in the mid 90s for that reason.

cheers mooncoon

 

[THX1139]

Its an Antique. So discharge is the same as Non-restricted.

That's where, for me anyway, it's fuzzy. I accept it but it seem to be implied and not clearly stated. Restricted/non-restricted can be discharged where it's stated on the ATT/registration paperwork, but since antiques have non then it would seem to be ok.

On one level it makes sense. That's what worries me since LAW isn't really english. It just uses english words. lol

 

[dingus]

Where did you get the "letter"? Just wondering how much, and what kind, of proof is required. I did not get any documentation of any kind with my "Ajax Army" 44 when I got it so I did research myself. I printed a copy from the RIA gun auction of an 1883 with serial number 5015 (mine is 5002) an I found evidence to indicate that the vendor who the Ajax Army was made for, E.C. Meacham was out of business by Dec 2 1887. Is that enough or do in need something else?

Thats the best thing to do find your own proof and keep it with the gun its either antique or its not.
The other letter he was talking about is a RCMP antique letter they do give out free letters telling that "based on the info you supply"
that the gun meets antique status. But them letters are defacto registration as they do keep a record of every gun they give a letter to.
I used to get rcmp letters on every gun now on anything i can prove its antique by other meens i do that.
I think your info is good enough and its the best way to go.
Even photocopying a page from fladermans guide if your gun is in there will help.

 

[drumstyx]

Thats the best thing to do find your own proof and keep it with the gun its either antique or its not.
The other letter he was talking about is a RCMP antique letter they do give out free letters telling that "based on the info you supply"
that the gun meets antique status. But them letters are defacto registration as they do keep a record of every gun they give a letter to.
I used to get rcmp letters on every gun now on anything i can prove its antique by other meens i do that.
I think your info is good enough and its the best way to go.
Even photocopying a page from fladermans guide if your gun is in there will help.

If I'm honest, I'd put up with registration if it meant I could shoot anywhere. Registration has no benefit to the police (as stated by the police themselves), and the only way it really affects me is if 'they' come and try to take my guns away in some sort of War Measures Act police state BS. At which point I'd say, 'come and take them...', if you catch my drift.

That's where, for me anyway, it's fuzzy. I accept it but it seem to be implied and not clearly stated. Restricted/non-restricted can be discharged where it's stated on the ATT/registration paperwork, but since antiques have non then it would seem to be ok.

On one level it makes sense. That's what worries me since LAW isn't really english. It just uses english words. lol

In a free country, that which is not illegal, is legal. Laws exist to describe what is prohibited, not what is tolerated.

But freedom is not free, and you may need to fight for it. I'm willing to take the issue to court, I'd represent myself and win anyway, because it's very clear in law that it's not illegal, and therefore legal.