My VZ 58 is denting my casings

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zombie hunter 111

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I posted this originally in the black section but hope I can get more info here.
My (.223) VZ58 is denting my spent casings which I had planned on reloading.
Have any of you with VZ's run into this before?
Thanks
 
I've had two CSA's in .223 and they both dented cases in the same place as your picture.
Guess what?...I handload exclusively for both of them using those same dented cases for multiple firings without a problem. The area you should be most concerned with is the rim.
Your dents are totally normal and you're good to go as far as reloading them.
If you think these are bad you should see some spent casings from a Swiss arms!
 
Recce21 said:
Reloading for a semi is stupid anyways. Hard on casings, ripped rims, dents you name it.
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How do you figure? I know some semi rifles are harder on brass than others but in the case of the CSA VZ it's not a violent offender.
I've never bought a .223 case in my life, I get my Hornady 55gr FMJ's from Budget Shooting Supplies for 1000pcs for 150$ plus tax shipped. I run a Hornady L'n'L progressive so time investment isn't huge.
The money saved is not a huge factor but being able to shoot 1.5-2 MOA with a tailored handled with clean burning powder is really nice.
I get an average of 5 loadings out of a once fired case in my particular CSA using 25grs of Ramshot TAC.
But,hey, I'm not here to talk anyone into reloading...I need the cases left on the ground for me thank you very much! :p
 
Curtton said:
question, have you compared the grouping with commercial ammo of the .223 ?
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Sorry Curtton I couldn't say as I haven't purchased loaded ammunition for any of my rifles in quite some time.
It's so hard to achieve any kind of sound data when using the stock irons as they're so coarse.
I bought a CSA side-mount and scope specifically for load development with my current .223 and was seeing 1.5-2" groups for five shots consistently.
Once load development was done I sold the optic set-up on the EE and went back to the irons with a Rauch peep in the rear.

If you forced me to shoot a bench rested group at 100 yards with the factory VZ irons I'd struggle to get 4 MOA even with my handloads! :p
Having experience with two of them I am fairly confident in saying that the CSA in .223 is easily capable of 2 MOA with ammo that it likes and a reasonable sighting system.
I am pretty sure that saskcop would have some more input regarding commercial ammo in the CSA, I know he reloads for his as well.
 
Hard on brass is first and foremost. By firing your case in an oversized semi auto chamber, you are stressing the brass and creating thin spots where it has flowed beyond the specs. Also, the case being violently ejected/extracted causes damage to the brass.
Also, think about the action of an auto loader, unless you go the extra step and crimp your ammo, the accuracy you attain by loading your own is negated by the possibility of the projectile being forced forward or back in the case throat or being pushed to one side or the other making it no longer centered in the case. They are very minute changes but you are dealing with a very minute projectile and most likely POA.

Lastly, I prefer my fingers and eyes whole. A case failure on a bolt action is usually not a big deal as the bolt lugs stay locked and the failure contained in ordinary failures. On a semi auto it can be catastrophic and I would rather have my eyesight and all my fingers than save .10 cents a round.
Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
How do you figure? I know some semi rifles are harder on brass than others but in the case of the CSA VZ it's not a violent offender.
I've never bought a .223 case in my life, I get my Hornady 55gr FMJ's from Budget Shooting Supplies for 1000pcs for 150$ plus tax shipped. I run a Hornady L'n'L progressive so time investment isn't huge.
The money saved is not a huge factor but being able to shoot 1.5-2 MOA with a tailored handled with clean burning powder is really nice.
I get an average of 5 loadings out of a once fired case in my particular CSA using 25grs of Ramshot TAC.
But,hey, I'm not here to talk anyone into reloading...I need the cases left on the ground for me thank you very much! :p
Click to expand...
 
Recce21 said:
Hard on brass is first and foremost. By firing your case in an oversized semi auto chamber, you are stressing the brass and creating thin spots where it has flowed beyond the specs. Also, the case being violently ejected/extracted causes damage to the brass.
Also, think about the action of an auto loader, unless you go the extra step and crimp your ammo, the accuracy you attain by loading your own is negated by the possibility of the projectile being forced forward or back in the case throat or being pushed to one side or the other making it no longer centered in the case. They are very minute changes but you are dealing with a very minute projectile and most likely POA.

Lastly, I prefer my fingers and eyes whole. A case failure on a bolt action is usually not a big deal as the bolt lugs stay locked and the failure contained in ordinary failures. On a semi auto it can be catastrophic and I would rather have my eyesight and all my fingers than save .10 cents a round.
Click to expand...

Small base dies,a firm roll-crimp and a CCI #41 primer are a given.
Do you have a CSA in .223 you load for or are you making a blanket statement here?
Some semi's are notoriously hard on empties...no argument there as I have owned a couple I would never load for but the CSA in .223 as long as it's not over-gassed is just fine.
I also made a point of saying that my reason for reloading isn't based solely on money saved.
 
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Blanket statement based on my VZ/AR/SAN/G43/Valmet/Garand/M1A/TNW experience
Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
Small base dies,a firm roll-crimp and a CCI #41 primer are a given.
Do you have a CSA in .223 you load for or are you making a blanket statement here?
Some semi's are notoriously hard on empties...no argument there as I have owned a couple I would never load for but the CSA in .223 as long as it's not over-gassed is just fine.
I also made a point of saying that my reason for reloading isn't based solely on money saved.
Click to expand...
 
The dents will not cause any problems and lots of people reload for semiauto rifles. Just make sure your (typically full length) sized cases chamber freely, seat your primers well, and scrap any cases showing signs of incipient head separation and you will be fine.

I have reloaded lots of .223 for my AR-15 with standard dies to make ammo that is both less expensive and better quality than typical factory 55 grain FMJ. Small base dies are usually unnecessary unless your rifle specifically needs them. While your results may vary, I have had good results without crimping.
 
tjhaile said:
The dents will not cause any problems and lots of people reload for semiauto rifles. Just make sure your (typically full length) sized cases chamber freely, seat your primers well, and scrap any cases showing signs of incipient head separation and you will be fine.

I have reloaded lots of .223 for my AR-15 with standard dies to make ammo that is both less expensive and better quality than typical factory 55 grain FMJ. Small base dies are usually unnecessary unless your rifle specifically needs them. While your results may vary, I have had good results without crimping.
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Thanks, I didn't realize this would create such a debate.
I have been checking around and have found some more sources for .223 ammo and will go that route till I get my reloader.
 
Suomi dents the rims and the skorpion launching shells to the moon dents cases off the ceiling. Happens in some guns.
 
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