First time reloading 308, compressed loads

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fivehundredlimited

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Hi all,
I'm new to reloading and started with 223, now trying 308. But I'm running into compressed loads pretty early in my loads for a ladder test. I'm using hornady 110gr sp with IMR4895 powder and RP marked cases.
The min.pad is 44.1gr and the max. is 48.0gr, so for my ladder test I wanted to go up by 0.4grs to give me 11 loads to try. I was able to fill powder for the first 5 loads to 45.7grs. At that point it barely looks like the bullet has any room to seat. But only 5 out of the 11 possible seems wrong. I have heard that different cases have different volumes and the manual does call for hornady cases, but I didn't think they could make that much of a difference.
Fivehundred
 
There can be significant differences between cases, even between two civilian brands.

The good thing about a ladder test is since you're going from the bottom to the top you can just stop if bad things start to happen. If you find the cases are sticking in the chamber, blowing primers, or other signs you can just stop and only have to pull a few rounds. A light compressed charge is usually fine with 4895 and a moderate compressed charge can be okay as well depending. I'd leave the bullets for a day or two after loading and see if the compression pushes any of the bullets up. I would not shoot any rounds that do that.
 
Load all 11, wait a day or two, any that "grow" I wouldn't shoot. I'd say chances are they will all stay the same size.

Is the powder into the neck yet or is it just coming close to the top of the shoulder? If it isn't in the neck yet, you don't have a very compressed load.
 
First of all, why are you loading 110 gr bullets? Are you trying to load an ultra fast varmint load or just trying to keep the cost down? 110 gr is not a typical accuracy load in .308 Win.

Next point is that RP cases are civilian not military so I wouldn't expect them to have a reduced capacity.

Until you've got the pressure/velocity limits established there is not much point on doing a ladder test.

How did you determine your bullet seating depth? Have you done any sort of test to see what you maximum overall length to the the lands is? You might be able to seat the bullet farther out of the case, which gives you a bit more volume to work with.

I'm thinking you might need to go right back to square one. I wouldn't encourage a new reloader to load and shoot very compressed loads without carefully working up to them.

If I was doing what you are trying to do I would load 6 cartridges at 44 gr, shoot 3 as foulers and then 3 to see how they group. Then I would load 1 each at 45, 46, 46.5, 47, 47.5 and 48. As you shoot these check the primer for excess flattening or cratering around the firing pin strike. As you open the bolt try to assess any increase in effort required. As you pull the bolt back try to feel for any binding of the case in the chamber. Keep the fired cases in order so you can check them out again at home.

Once you are sure of your pressure limits then you can load up a bunch at a known safe pressure and start working up your accuracy load.
 
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Thanks guys,
The first load had the powder just below the neck, by load 5 it was half way up the neck, I loaded the rest up to 9 out of 11 and it was just barely below the mouth of tube case, but the bullet seated to 2.690 with out any extra pressure. I will remeasure the COL tomorrow. I havent fired any of my 223 reloads yet either, but using a lee neck sized I found that with compressed loads the bullets wouldn't stay in and get stuck in the seating die rather than staying in the case neck. Perhaps I have to adjust the tension on the neck die for the 223. I have tried to adjust it before, with no luck.
 
762shooter said:
First of all, why are you loading 110 gr bullets? Are you trying to load an ultra fast varmint load or just trying to keep the cost down? 110 gr is not a typical accuracy load in .308 Win.

Next point is that RP cases are civilian not military so I wouldn't expect them to have a reduced capacity.

Until you've got the pressure/velocity limits established there is not much point on doing a ladder test.

How did you determine your bullet seating depth? Have you done any sort of test to see what you maximum overall length to the the lands is? You might be able to seat the bullet farther out of the case, which gives you a bit more volume to work with.

I'm thinking you might need to go right back to square one. I wouldn't encourage a new reloader to load and shoot very compressed loads without carefully working up to them.

If I was doing what you are trying to do I would load 6 cartridges at 44 gr, shoot 3 as foulers and then 3 to see how they group. Then I would load 1 each at 45, 46, 46.5, 47, 47.5 and 48. As you shoot these check the primer for excess flattening or cratering around the firing pin strike. As you open the bolt try to assess any increase in effort required. As you pull the bolt back try to feel for any binding of the case in the chamber. Keep the fired cases in order so you can check them out again at home.

Once you are sure of your pressure limits then you can load up a bunch at a known safe pressure and start working up your accuracy load.
Click to expand...

I can try this first. Do you know of a good source for pictures showing the pressure signs that I should watch for? I plan to shoot the reloads in a savage 99 lever action. I bought the 110 because I thought they might give me slightly less recoil and I could then use them for lots of practice with no fatigue due to recoil. What would you recommend as a more accurate bullet?
 
fivehundredlimited said:
Thanks guys,
The first load had the powder just below the neck, by load 5 it was half way up the neck, I loaded the rest up to 9 out of 11 and it was just barely below the mouth of tube case, but the bullet seated to 2.690 with out any extra pressure. I will remeasure the COL tomorrow. I havent fired any of my 223 reloads yet either, but using a lee neck sized I found that with compressed loads the bullets wouldn't stay in and get stuck in the seating die rather than staying in the case neck. Perhaps I have to adjust the tension on the neck die for the 223. I have tried to adjust it before, with no luck.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that you are taking a way too cavalier attitude to shooting compressed loads without carefully working up to them.

You could probably benefit by recruiting a mentor to help you learn the finer points of reloading. Do you know an experienced shooter who could help you?
 
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fivehundredlimited said:
I can try this first. Do you know of a good source for pictures showing the pressure signs that I should watch for? I plan to shoot the reloads in a savage 99 lever action. I bought the 110 because I thought they might give me slightly less recoil and I could then use them for lots of practice with no fatigue due to recoil. What would you recommend as a more accurate bullet?
Click to expand...

Sure: https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pressure+signs+on+primers

I would load a mid pressure load (about 40 gr of H4895) under 150 gr Spire points.

Your magazine may limit your maximum cartridge length.

Savage 99 rifles are a bit notorious for case strech so your case life may be limited to a few reloads.
 
fivehundredlimited said:
I can try this first. Do you know of a good source for pictures showing the pressure signs that I should watch for? I plan to shoot the reloads in a savage 99 lever action. I bought the 110 because I thought they might give me slightly less recoil and I could then use them for lots of practice with no fatigue due to recoil. What would you recommend as a more accurate bullet?
Click to expand...

A lever action is not the style of action that most choose to push the limits with. Not as strong as a bolt, and usually not as accurate, very precise handloading doesn't benefit too much. My semi and milsurp I start at the bottom and find a load in the middle of the load table that shoots ok. Sounds like you are just getting going reloading, do you have a chronograph or access to one? Visual pressure signs are only obvious when you are well past spec pressure. Again, use a bolt gun if you are pushing hard. Where are your loads on the loading tables in the manuals you have? If you are at the top end and not sure about pressure signs......

If your load is that compressed, are you using the right powder for such a light bullet? Maybe a faster powder would be simpler... Most load 150gr bullets in the 308; if you keep the velocity down the recoil will be small. Accuracy with 110gr bullets may be a difficult journey.
 
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New to loading, started with .223 now moving on to .308, but haven't fired your .223 loads yet.
Ladder testing with 110gr in .308??

This thread is making me pucker.

You'd benefit by learning on one cartridge. Experiment with it, verify it, and improve it, before moving to another cartridge.

As for the incomplete test, you can only do what you can do.
May I ask what the 110s are for? I've never loaded them.
 
9x19p said:
New to loading, started with .223 now moving on to .308, but haven't fired your .223 loads yet.
Ladder testing with 110gr in .308??

This thread is making me pucker.

You'd benefit by learning on one cartridge. Experiment with it, verify it, and improve it, before moving to another cartridge.

As for the incomplete test, you can only do what you can do.
May I ask what the 110s are for? I've never loaded them.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Perhaps I should stick with the 223 for now. I bought the 110 gr because I thought they would give less recoil? Was going to use them for target practice, not hunting.
 
emerson said:
A lever action is not the style of action that most choose to push the limits with. Not as strong as a bolt, and usually not as accurate, very precise handloading doesn't benefit too much. My semi and milsurp I start at the bottom and find a load in the middle of the load table that shoots ok. Sounds like you are just getting going reloading, do you have a chronograph or access to one? Visual pressure signs are only obvious when you are well past spec pressure. Again, use a bolt gun if you are pushing hard. Where are your loads on the loading tables in the manuals you have? If you are at the top end and not sure about pressure signs......

If your load is that compressed, are you using the right powder for such a light bullet? Maybe a faster powder would be simpler... Most load 150gr bullets in the 308; if you keep the velocity down the recoil will be small. Accuracy with 110gr bullets may be a difficult journey.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe the 110 gr wasn't a good start weight. I don't have a chonogragh, but how does that show me pressure problems sooner than visual signs? It might be worth my while to pick one up on the EE. And I will keep my loads well below the max.
 
fivehundredlimited said:
Ok, maybe the 110 gr wasn't a good start weight. I don't have a chonogragh, but how does that show me pressure problems sooner than visual signs? It might be worth my while to pick one up on the EE. And I will keep my loads well below the max.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about a chrony for a while. Just work up some good shooting, moderate pressure loads and go shoot.
 
High pressure will cause the primer to flatten, or "smear". This is the way I usually use to check pressure sighs.

What reloading manuel are you using? If I recall, both my Hornady 8th(?) edition and my Lymann 49th have a section describing pressure signs.

Then their is google. Good old google. Here is a pic describing the smeared primer, look at the right casing.

Their are other signs, but this one is pretty obvious.

flattened.jpg
 
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762shooter said:
It seems to me that you are taking a way too cavalier attitude to shooting compressed loads without carefully working up to them.

You could probably benefit by recruiting a mentor to help you learn the finer points of reloading. Do you know an experienced shooter who could help you?
Click to expand...

Absolutely no disrespect intended to the OP whatsoever, but this was my assessment as well.

Grab a copy of any of the major reloading manuals as other have stated here. I have found Hornady and Speer to be especially informative. Read them thoroughly, be safe and have fun! If you can find a mentor, all the better!
 
I like the berger book with a lot of info about OAL effect and how to play with thanks to Brian Litz
maybe you should try CFE223 or VV N130 for the light bullets and maybe try to seat them @ standart COAL 2.800
 
762shooter said:
It seems to me that you are taking a way too cavalier attitude to shooting compressed loads without carefully working up to them.

You could probably benefit by recruiting a mentor to help you learn the finer points of reloading. Do you know an experienced shooter who could help you?
Click to expand...
Myself I do not think this is that fair of statement he stated he was new. He is reloading some rounds starting at the bottom of the chart working up the powder charges ran into a problem and asked for help before he shot. How is that cavalier attitude? Sounds to me like he is trying to do it right. Always a good idea to get someone that has done before to help that is there not just online. No one men
 
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