pal required for purchase of reloading supplies?

PAL is not required, see post #17 for requirements. PAL is not one of them, however PAL could be used to meet requirement, but driver's licence would suffice.

Regards,

Peter, Hirsch Precision Inc., VihtaVuori/Lapua in Canada.
 
Your PAL is needed to buy powder.....not primers, bullets, or casings. At least that's what's required from any of the site sponsors.
Cheers
Brian

That might just be a personal policy of the business. There will always be people that won't agree with it, and they'll just take their business elsewhere.

Me, I'm prepared to pull out the PAL for anything related to firearms. You wanna check if I have a PAL to buy a press/ammo/primers/powder/shotgun choke? Sure, here it is. I really don't care. I've had to go through 2 safety courses, an interview and had references called to see if I'm not a loonietoon. This plastic card shows that I've passed all that and the government trusts me enough to NOT be an idiot.
 
Sometimes, I accidentally try to use my PAL to buy powder, and the store staff usually laugh at me and ask for my drivers license.

I've heard of stores that require to see your PAL when buying powder as a company policy even though it's not legally required. As far as I know this is legal to do and as a private business they can refuse to serve you. I'm not saying it's good for business but I believe it is legal.
 
I know that many think they are earning brownie points with the Gov when they plan to obtain more info than the law requires. Our club is sometimes guilty of this. The Gov really does not care. It's like single or double locking up a rifle to transport it when none is required.
 
So you don't need a PAL to buy powder?
But IF you have one you have to provide it?
Or does this refer to some other type of licence?

You don't need a PAL to buy powder. But if you do have one, the seller needs to take your PAL number down.
Doesn't have to make sense....it's just the law.
 
That might just be a personal policy of the business. There will always be people that won't agree with it, and they'll just take their business elsewhere.

Me, I'm prepared to pull out the PAL for anything related to firearms. You wanna check if I have a PAL to buy a press/ammo/primers/powder/shotgun choke? Sure, here it is. I really don't care. I've had to go through 2 safety courses, an interview and had references called to see if I'm not a loonietoon. This plastic card shows that I've passed all that and the government trusts me enough to NOT be an idiot.

I take a different approach on that. If the law requires me to show my PAL, I show it, if it's just store policy, I will take my business elsewhere. There are already too many stupid firearms laws, without stores dreaming up their own policies to further infringe upon the rights of firearms owners.
 
I take a different approach on that. If the law requires me to show my PAL, I show it, if it's just store policy, I will take my business elsewhere. There are already too many stupid firearms laws, without stores dreaming up their own policies to further infringe upon the rights of firearms owners.

Why is it such a big deal, for you, to show your PAL to buy powder or primers?

I feel like we're so lucky we don't have to get a separate permit to buy 'explosive' items. And also feel that showing a PAL to buy powder and primers has nothing really to do with the sale, but if a store owner just wants to see it before he makes a sale then sure. I feel that there is no threat to me for showing my PAL to a store owner or employee to purchase gun powder or primers, etc..
 
Why is it such a big deal, for you, to show your PAL to buy powder or primers?

I feel like we're so lucky we don't have to get a separate permit to buy 'explosive' items. And also feel that showing a PAL to buy powder and primers has nothing really to do with the sale, but if a store owner just wants to see it before he makes a sale then sure. I feel that there is no threat to me for showing my PAL to a store owner or employee to purchase gun powder or primers, etc..

So now you are limiting it to powder and primers, what happened to showing it to buying anything related to firearms such as a press or shotgun chokes? I mean really, a PAL to buy shotgun chokes, or a loading press? Get real!

Me, I'm prepared to pull out the PAL for anything related to firearms. You wanna check if I have a PAL to buy a press/ammo/primers/powder/shotgun choke?

As to why I am opposed to having to show my PAL when it isn't required, it's because of the years of having my rights and freedoms being trampled upon, by people like the CFOs that are imposing their own rules,such as in the case of the back door registries where they ordered business owners to record PALs and private information, even though it was no longer legal to maintain a registry for non restricted firearms. I wrote many letters , to MPs, MLAs, the Premier, the Prime Minister, and others in order to get this type of nonsense stopped. I also wrote similar letters to have the long gun registry ended, and apparently enough other people did the same, because the long gun registry is gone. I do what I can to protect the rights of firearms owners, and this includes not allowing businesses to collect private information, that the laws doesn't require them to collect.

So while I am taking the time to stand up for firearms owners rights, what are you doing? How many letters did you write to help get rid of the long gun registry? How many letters did you write in opposition to the back door registries?

If more people took the time to contact those in power we could probably get more reforms to the firearm act, and eliminate even more stupid rules and regulations, unfortunately, most Canadians choose to just do what someone in authority or a business owner tells them to do, so we are stuck with the ridiculous regulations, as well as the stupid store policies.
 
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Have to go with The stubblejumper on this and thanks to toxic as we appreciate the reminder as the law! We deal with many regulations and have a decent CFO who is a shooter, but some bureaucracies can overstep their authority and we don't need businesses asking for more than what is legally required.

Regulations and laws we deal with: municipal and provincial laws, DND, Public Works, Customs, DoJ, NRCAN, ERD, DOT; most are competent and reasonable.

We should be here to help determine what the laws actually are, which will help businesses as well as purchasers.

Regards,

Peter the paperpusher
 
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So now you are limiting it to powder and primers, what happened to showing it to buying anything related to firearms such as a press or shotgun chokes? I mean really, a PAL to buy shotgun chokes, or a loading press? Get real!



As to why I am opposed to having to show my PAL when it isn't required, it's because of the years of having my rights and freedoms being trampled upon, by people like the CFOs that are imposing their own rules,such as in the case of the back door registries where they ordered business owners to record PALs and private information, even though it was no longer legal to maintain a registry for non restricted firearms. I wrote many letters , to MPs, MLAs, the Premier, the Prime Minister, and others in order to get this type of nonsense stopped. I also wrote similar letters to have the long gun registry ended, and apparently enough other people did the same, because the long gun registry is gone. I do what I can to protect the rights of firearms owners, and this includes not allowing businesses to collect private information, that the laws doesn't require them to collect.

So while I am taking the time to stand up for firearms owners rights, what are you doing? How many letters did you write to help get rid of the long gun registry? How many letters did you write in opposition to the back door registries?

If more people took the time to contact those in power we could probably get more reforms to the firearm act, and eliminate even more stupid rules and regulations, unfortunately, most Canadians choose to just do what someone in authority or a business owner tells them to do, so we are stuck with the ridiculous regulations, as well as the stupid store policies.

I actually didn't write any letters (I got my PAL after the LGR "went away"), nor do I actively participate in these kinds of debates. I feel like me, as one person, won't make or break the opinion of whoever puts these rules in place.
I feel as if no matter how many letters I write or how much I complain, Nothing will change. But that's just my opinion.

And just to clarify, I've never had to show my PAL to buy any reloading related products. Just so you're aware of that. And I also don't agree with it, but if showing my PAL means I get the goods I want then so be it. A quick flash of the card is a very minor inconvenience to me to get something I want.
If you feel that that is "trampling upon your rights and freedoms", then so be it and don't buy at that specific store.

I honestly wasn't trying to spark a huge debate.. I just wanted your opinion on why you, personally, wouldn't want to show the PAL for reloading/firearm related items.
 
I actually didn't write any letters (I got my PAL after the LGR "went away"), nor do I actively participate in these kinds of debates. I feel like me, as one person, won't make or break the opinion of whoever puts these rules in place.
I feel as if no matter how many letters I write or how much I complain, Nothing will change. But that's just my opinion.

Exactly as I thought, and attitudes like yours, is a big part of why we have to live with the ridiculous firearms laws and store policies that now exist. Either you put forth an effort to make change happen, and you become part of the solution, or you do nothing, and you become part of the problem.
 
Quote"....it's just the law." It isn't, see post #17, again, and our post #21.

Powder dealer and distributor.

The way I read the regulation though, you as the seller are responsible to record my PAL# if I have one. It doesn't say if I show you one but rather if I have one.
 
Seller only has to record PAL if that is the ID the purchaser provides. No requirement to record driver's licence if that is used.
 
Exactly as I thought, and attitudes like yours, is a big part of why we have to live with the ridiculous firearms laws and store policies that now exist. Either you put forth an effort to make change happen, and you become part of the solution, or you do nothing, and you become part of the problem.

Yes sir, I'll get right on that.....

This whole "If you're not with me, you're against me" attitude is pretty childish.
By doing noting, I'm not "becoming part of the problem". I'm simply, NOT picking a side and doing nothing for either case. Does that make sense to you? Normally people with half a head on their shoulders would call that a 'Neutral Opinion'.

I've made my peace with the current gun laws. While I may not like a few of them, I'm still allowed to do the things I like to do with my guns and I'm 100% fine with that. If things actually started to change, then I'll start putting up a fight. But as it sits, "I'm cool with it".
 
Exactly as I thought, and attitudes like yours, is a big part of why we have to live with the ridiculous firearms laws and store policies that now exist. Either you put forth an effort to make change happen, and you become part of the solution, or you do nothing, and you become part of the problem.

Well said !!! We all need to put our foot down and refuse these absurd store made regs. I never give out anything that's not lawfully required. Verbally express that you are not happy with store regs and speak with your $$ and shop elsewhere.
 
Well said !!! We all need to put our foot down and refuse these absurd store made regs. I never give out anything that's not lawfully required. Verbally express that you are not happy with store regs and speak with your $$ and shop elsewhere.

Unfortunately, a fairly large percentage of people share the opinion of the person that posted just previous to you, because they don't feel that they can make a difference. If everyone shared that opinion, the long gun registry would still be in effect, and who knows just how many other stupid regulations we would be forced to abide by. Amazingly enough, some firearms owners would not be bothered by that prospect at all.
 
Surprising how from what I have heard there appears to be NO ISSUE having to show a PAL for the purchase of Tannerite or the equivalent of the exploding targets that are so highly sought after today.

I know of one business who sold 23 cases of it in one day. They do not sell it to you unless you produce your PAL and they record it in a log. I was advised by the business that THEY MUST record that info. Why would gunpowder be any different?

WHINE WHINE WHINE...............

I cannot wait..................the FLAMING will begin...............but I could care less. We all have our opinions.

Have a lovely explosive evening.
 
Part of the problem is people referring to smokeless powder as an explosive. It burns, rather than explodes. Different powder burns at different rates, that is why you have so many different kinds of smokeless powder. Why do you think that you have to record the purchases of smokeless powder? Could it be because it can be a hazard by suddenly exploding? Not likely, you can drop a container of smokeless powder on the ground, and it isn't going to explode. If you throw a handful of smokeless powder into an open fire, it will burn , but it won't suddenly explode. Is it because it can be used to make a bomb to explode something? Not really, because it makes for a poor bomb. Could it be because you can make ammunition with smokeless powder, not likely, because you can buy ammunition simply by showing a PAL, and your personal data isn't recorded. In actuality gasoline is much more dangerous, and you don't have to supply your name or address to purchase gasoline. So what legitimate purpose could their be for recording all purchases of smokeless powder?
 
I've made my peace with the current gun laws. While I may not like a few of them, I'm still allowed to do the things I like to do with my guns and I'm 100% fine with that. If things actually started to change, then I'll start putting up a fight. But as it sits, "I'm cool with it".
You are making a big mistake. Gun laws are in constant motion; either they are getting better or getting worse, they are never standing still. If you're not working to get them repealed, there's someone out there working to get more. The more you get repealed, the more they have to work to get some of them back in. Don't be "cool with it"; you'll wake up one day and find that things aren't cool and it's too late.
 
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