Fake Suppressors/Cool Flash Hiders?

Here's a question...what if someone (wealthy...so sadly not me ) had the ability(s) to have an upper (NR part) made/designed to fit on your standard (restricted) AR type lower that was made from the ground up with a barrel where as a result of it's unique design, the sound ends up being suppressed anyway with no add on's?

This would not be a modification as again, the entire upper (not just barrel) would be designed from the ground up and the upper is not a controlled part. I'm not looking for legal advice, just people's thoughts on how this hypothetical situation would play out?

Your thoughts...?
 
silver69 said:
Here's a question...what if someone (wealthy...so sadly not me ) had the ability(s) to have an upper (NR part) made/designed to fit on your standard (restricted) AR type lower that was made from the ground up with a barrel where as a result of it's unique design, the sound ends up being suppressed anyway with no add on's?

This would not be a modification as again, the entire upper (not just barrel) would be designed from the ground up and the upper is not a controlled part. I'm not looking for legal advice, just people's thoughts on how this hypothetical situation would play out?

Your thoughts...?
Click to expand...


My thoughts.....

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Shooter1of38 said:
My thoughts.....

7a999514e40363779932b85b275dbe9b_zps56244302.jpg
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Ok, but please remember this is a hypothetical scenario....however my understanding is in Canada you can not buy, own or install a a sound suppression device for any firearm or modify said FA in anyway to do so. But I'm not talking about an add on or a mod, this would (essentially) be an FA designed to shoot quieter. In this case, an in regulated part (upper)?

Since this rifle would shoot quieter then the average bear, is there a chart that says what decibel level each round should reach therefore a benchmark that showed us where a rifles report can not be lower then ###dbL or it's illegal?
 
Dave_G said:
ATRS Flash Eliminator.

DSCF1275_zpsec0137aa.jpg
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WTF Dave!? Them some hairy toes!! Nice ATRS! So if I'm to understand this right....someone already thought of my hypothetical million dollar idea? Clearly legal? Does it work? Shoot the average round quieter?
 
silver69 said:
WTF Dave!? Them some hairy toes!! Nice ATRS! So if I'm to understand this right....someone already thought of my hypothetical million dollar idea? Clearly legal? Does it work? Shoot the average round quieter?
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Absolutely, go to the Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply website, read about it and watch the video. My AR is chambered in 300 blackout and is a pussycat with subsonic loads. Might as well be silenced.

http://www.albertatacticalrifle.com...15-eliminator-flash-hider/category_pathway-86
 
skimmer said:
The lack of suppressors in Canada is one of the worst aspects of our laws. Even worse than mag limits.

But it's also probably one of the things that would be most difficult to change thanks to Hollywood.
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I agree with your first sentence but disagree with the second. In the UK, they took the government to court and won. Our laws are essentially the same as the UK laws and thus suffer from the same weakness when it comes to supporting a ban on silencers. Our government would never willingly reverse the ban but it could be possible to force it through the courts.

This white paper contains most everything you need to know on the subject.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42597962/LegalizeSuppressors.pdf
 
skimmer said:
I'm continually amazed at how expensive the real ones are though. I'm sure my wallet is glad they're illegal
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The US silencer market is skewed due to the $200 tax required for each suppressor. If you are gonna pay a $200 tax then you want the highest quality and most durable unit possible. This results in very high tech models sporting exotic materials and designs.

In other parts of the world where silencers are basically uncontrolled, prices are downright cheap. Places like Finland and New Zealand offer some very inexpensive silencer models.



canuckchap said:
So....I'm not up on the differences...what makes a fake can? Is it literally a large diameter cylinder, or ........anyone have a graphic that compares a real one from a lel " fake"
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A fake silencer can have no expansion chamber or anything that may reduce sound. Mostly these are solid aluminum cylinders or feature a straight through inner tube so that gas cannot expand into the outer tube space. Many of the ones you see in the pics are just shrouds that thread onto the muzzle threads and extend back over the barrel. The barrel muzzle and the can muzzle are coincident.
 
silver69 said:
Here's a question...what if someone (wealthy...so sadly not me ) had the ability(s) to have an upper (NR part) made/designed to fit on your standard (restricted) AR type lower that was made from the ground up with a barrel where as a result of it's unique design, the sound ends up being suppressed anyway with no add on's?

This would not be a modification as again, the entire upper (not just barrel) would be designed from the ground up and the upper is not a controlled part. I'm not looking for legal advice, just people's thoughts on how this hypothetical situation would play out?

Your thoughts...?
Click to expand...

You asked this question in another thread.

RCMP have determined that 4 dB is the limit regardless of function.


silver69 said:
Ok, but please remember this is a hypothetical scenario....however my understanding is in Canada you can not buy, own or install a a sound suppression device for any firearm or modify said FA in anyway to do so. But I'm not talking about an add on or a mod, this would (essentially) be an FA designed to shoot quieter. In this case, an in regulated part (upper)?

Since this rifle would shoot quieter then the average bear, is there a chart that says what decibel level each round should reach therefore a benchmark that showed us where a rifles report can not be lower then ###dbL or it's illegal?
Click to expand...

The law states, "Any device, designed or intended ....." Doesn't say it has to be attached to a firearm or an addition. ANYTHING that reduces the sound of the shot by 4dB can be classed as a Prohib Device.

The law prohibiting silencers is extremely vague. There is no specific target for you to work around.

The only possibility I have come up with is a frequency converting device that alters the frequencies of the noise into the ultrasonic range where the human ear cannot hear them. A sound meter would show that the sound is still there and thus the device does not muffle or reduce the noise of the shot. However this is a bit of a long-shot.
 
Dave_G said:
My AR is chambered in 300 blackout and is a pussycat with subsonic loads. Might as well be silenced.
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Take into consideration what the law states and that the RCMP have deemed 4 dB as the limit for what they will accept as legal. Then reconsider your statement and its potential ramifications on your future ability to own and enjoy firearms.

My sound meter tells me that you do not want the RCMP to look too closely.
 
Suputin said:
You asked this question in another thread.

RCMP have determined that 4 dB is the limit regardless of function.




The law states, "Any device, designed or intended ....." Doesn't say it has to be attached to a firearm or an addition. ANYTHING that reduces the sound of the shot by 4dB can be classed as a Prohib Device.

The law prohibiting silencers is extremely vague. There is no specific target for you to work around.

The only possibility I have come up with is a frequency converting device that alters the frequencies of the noise into the ultrasonic range where the human ear cannot hear them. A sound meter would show that the sound is still there and thus the device does not muffle or reduce the noise of the shot. However this is a bit of a long-shot.
Click to expand...




As you stated, the law is written in a way that leaves it open to interpretation. Technically, Ear Pro would be considered prohibited the way the law is written. Take that for what it's worth.......
 
TheGr8One said:
As you stated, the law is written in a way that leaves it open to interpretation. Technically, Ear Pro would be considered prohibited the way the law is written. Take that for what it's worth.......
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No. Ear protection does not reduce or muffle the sound of the shot. It prevents that sound from getting to your ears but it does not affect the sound reaching anyone else. Thus not a silencer.

However quiet or subsonic ammo does fit the loose definition of a Prohibited Device. Especially the stuff that is specifically marketed as being "low noise" or "quiet". The RCMP have chosen not to go after low noise ammo but the law is written such that they very easily could.

For example, in the US, captive piston ammo is classed as a silencer .... every single round, and thus subject to a $200 tax per round. I suspect RCMP would agree that captive piston ammo is "a device designed or intended to reduce or muffle" the noise of a shot. It is a very small conceptual step to move from low noise captive piston ammo to low noise subsonic ammo. The difference is all in how the noise reduction is achieved and our law does not distinguish by methods, only results.

I have experimented with a setup close to what Dave_G describes and can tell you that the combination of low noise subsonic ammo with certain muzzle devices produces a noise level that is perilously close to being hearing safe (140 dB). That the RCMP allows this is somewhat surprising to me ... but it is what it is at this time. However there is nothing to say it couldn't change in the future.
 
Interesting thought, the debate can be open to interpretation, I've seen many shooting ranges with enclosed shooting booths or shooting "tunnels" that might arguably fit that definition. In fact a small sound proofed indoor range can be a contrivance that reduces the db.

Suputin said:
You asked this question in another thread.

RCMP have determined that 4 dB is the limit regardless of function.




The law states, "Any device, designed or intended ....." Doesn't say it has to be attached to a firearm or an addition. ANYTHING that reduces the sound of the shot by 4dB can be classed as a Prohib Device.

The law prohibiting silencers is extremely vague. There is no specific target for you to work around.

The only possibility I have come up with is a frequency converting device that alters the frequencies of the noise into the ultrasonic range where the human ear cannot hear them. A sound meter would show that the sound is still there and thus the device does not muffle or reduce the noise of the shot. However this is a bit of a long-shot.
Click to expand...
 
norlandgeese said:
Interesting thought, the debate can be open to interpretation, I've seen many shooting ranges with enclosed shooting booths or shooting "tunnels" that might arguably fit that definition. In fact a small sound proofed indoor range can be a contrivance that reduces the db.
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Also how about people using AR 22lr conversion kits? That's seriously reducing the Db of the AR.... hmm vague indeed.
 
Suputin said:
Take into consideration what the law states and that the RCMP have deemed 4 dB as the limit for what they will accept as legal. Then reconsider your statement and its potential ramifications on your future ability to own and enjoy firearms.

My sound meter tells me that you do not want the RCMP to look too closely.
Click to expand...

It can't be helped if subsonic rounds are already quiet. Ever have a problem telling if your .22 actually fired? Or was it the guy beside you.

It would be quite feasible to make an air gun that was not "silenced" but yet is completely quiet and propels a .50 cal projectile at lethal energies.
 
All I do is cough real loud as I pull the trigger, viola, instant silencer by distraction.

Also works for concealing farts.

[youtube]HB4Ji20eqRI[/youtube]
 
silver69 said:
... to have an upper (NR part) made/designed to fit on your standard (restricted) AR type lower that was made from the ground up with a barrel where as a result of it's unique design, the sound ends up being suppressed anyway with no add ons? ...
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That would be called "integrally suppressed" , and there are lots of rifles and handguns like this south of the border...

Edit: yup, this is what I'm talking about.
kanook said:
Here is your ground up suppressor upper http ://libertycans.net/leonidas/
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If you want legal-quiet shooting then try CCI quiet .22's in a bolt action rifle, or manually cycled in a semi auto or dropin AR kit.
 
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