He doesn't claim ignorance at all. After I received the rifle I emailed him and asked if he was aware the barrel was bulged. He said yes he was and he did tell me it was counterbored. So apparently that covered it in his opinion.
Finn M91 barrel bulge
- Thread starter Groverino
- Start date
He doesn't claim ignorance at all. After I received the rifle I emailed him and asked if he was aware the barrel was bulged. He said yes he was and he did tell me it was counterbored. So apparently that covered it in his opinion.
I paid $260 for a rifle just for the stock.
I though that you may be exaggerating until I saw the bulge lol
Yep. That's a bulge if I've ever seen one.
But for that price, you probably are still ok. Just make sure you inform the next buyer down the line, or find a replacement barrel. They are floating around from time to time.
Yep. That's a bulge if I've ever seen one.
But for that price, you probably are still ok. Just make sure you inform the next buyer down the line, or find a replacement barrel. They are floating around from time to time.
I though that you may be exaggerating until I saw the bulge lol
Yep. That's a bulge if I've ever seen one.
But for that price, you probably are still ok. Just make sure you inform the next buyer down the line, or find a replacement barrel. They are floating around from time to time.
I would never sell it to anyone without disclosing something like that. No way. At first I didn't even know if it would be safe to shoot. I had people saying that it was unsafe. Glad that's not the case. And yeah it was no exaggeration. She's bulged for sure.
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Whether the price is okay is not the issue. The bulge should have been mentioned, not just that it was counterbored. Only reason one wouldn't mention it is because it would make selling it difficult. And I bet the seller has a 100% trader rating!!
Well those were exactly my thoughts. The thing is the seller does have a very good trader rating and is a very active forum member. He wasn't in a huge hurry to sell or anything which makes the whole thing seem rather bizarre. I don't really understand it at all.
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Not a bad deal, even with the bulge. That so, the seller should have detailed it. I'd just keep it and walk away.
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Why should one keep it and walk away from it? Pretty much everyone agrees that it should have been disclosed. If the buyer is happy then fine. But it sounds like he is having reservations about owning a rifle that has an obvious defect that wasn't mentioned. Does suddenly knowing that the seller is an active forum member change things? All the more reason that you would think the seller would want to disclose any issues. This type of thing would have been avoided.
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Well, I have been away for a couple of days, and I found this very interesting thread. However, there are two sides to a story, and the Original Poster has failed to mention, or has used some inventiveness when he tells "his" side of the story.
I AM THE SELLER OF THIS RIFLE.
The OP has known for several months that I had the rifle. It is a Finnish VKT Mosin Nagant, and while most of us here know that Russian Mosin Nagants are common, Finnish ones are less so. In fact, the VKT ones are scarce and command premium price.
As the OP had persisted in e-mails and personal messages to me to sell this rifle and a TIKKA rifle that had an interesting scope mount on it. I finally sent about a half dozen or more pictures of each rifle to the OP and offered both at a very good price. He replied that the VKT was not original as it was varnished and the Finns did not varnish their rifles. I sent him a quote from Mosin-Nagant.com that they did indeed. He then stated that he WAS ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the Tikka had been modified in Canada and picked apart both rifles apparently in an attempt to lower the price to his advantage. His "expert" observation was opposite to several advanced Finnish Mosin rifle collectors that already have seen, handled and made their own observations.
I had sent the photos and told him about the counterbore. Counterbores on Finnish rifles are not uncommon, and usually result from a barrel obstruction such as snow in the end of the barrel. Since the OP represented himself as an Expert on Finnish rifles, I made the mistake of assuming that he WAS an advanced or knowledgeable collector, and would know WHY most of the rifles were counterbored. Finnish Armourers were provided with a kit for counterboring these rifles to make a good useable rifle so the repair was not a Bubba job. I was asking $325 for the rifle and the OP attempted to low-ball offer so I told him $275 plus $30 shipping. In fact the shipping was more and I paid approximately another $10 to ship this rifle to him.
In his "critique" of the VKT, the OP said he wanted a SHOOTER. I had fired this rifle, and it was very accurate, and he said that was what he wanted, and resale value was not a big issue. The OP HAS fired the rifle, and he has found out that the rifle is very accurate.
The OP has had the rifle for over a week, and on March 3, he sent an e-mail suggesting that he would like a reduction in the price paid. It is generally accepted on this forum that THREE DAYS is a reasonable time for an inspection of a rifle and notification sent to the other party. It is also generally accepted that IF YOU FIRE THE RIFLE, AND THE RIFLE PERFORMS, THEN THE RIFLE HAS BEEN ACCEPTED.
So, a week later, after shooting the rifle and the OP does agree that it is an accurate rifle, on March 3, the OP sends me an e-mail. Then, at 09:20 the following morning, the OP posts this thread. Good Lord, does this guy expect everyone to be at his beck and call and answer his emails and inquiries and statements immediately. How about giving someone a bit of time to respond?
"I emailed the seller and he said he did yell me.it was counterbored. I knew right away things would not progress well lol. I emailed him asking if he'd be interested in refunding some of my money, but haven't received a reply." Not everyone sits on their computer all the time and you have to give someone time to make a reply. Less than 24 hours elapsed and the OP way posting on this thread. This statement by the OP makes it sound like he sent one e-mail, but actually there WERE TWO E-MAILS ---OVER A WEEK APART. The first one was about the counterbore at the time he received the rifle. THE SECOND e-mail was OVER A WEEK LATER AFTER HE HAD POSESSION OF THE RIFLE FOR A WEEK, AND HE HAD FIRED THE RIFLE.
The OP has also invented some things in this thread that are simply NOT true, and I would even say border on the exterior by-products of a Male Bovine farm animal.
I am not going to keep a pissing contest going here, so this is the only post I will make on this. Basically, the OP said that he wanted a SHOOTER, which he got and admits that it is very accurate. He kept the rifle for a week, and he FIRED it, ACCEPTING THE CONDITION IN WHICH HE RECEIVED IT. If the rifle was NOT acceptable, then why would he have fired it, and he should have asked for an adjustment or refund within three days, not over a week later.
Well, I have been away for a couple of days, and I found this very interesting thread. However, there are two sides to a story, and the Original Poster has failed to mention, or has used some inventiveness when he tells "his" side of the story.
I AM THE SELLER OF THIS RIFLE.
The OP has known for several months that I had the rifle. It is a Finnish VKT Mosin Nagant, and while most of us here know that Russian Mosin Nagants are common, Finnish ones are less so. In fact, the VKT ones are scarce and command premium price.
As the OP had persisted in e-mails and personal messages to me to sell this rifle and a TIKKA rifle that had an interesting scope mount on it. I finally sent about a half dozen or more pictures of each rifle to the OP and offered both at a very good price. He replied that the VKT was not original as it was varnished and the Finns did not varnish their rifles. I sent him a quote from Mosin-Nagant.com that they did indeed. He then stated that he WAS ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the Tikka had been modified in Canada and picked apart both rifles apparently in an attempt to lower the price to his advantage. His "expert" observation was opposite to several advanced Finnish Mosin rifle collectors that already have seen, handled and made their own observations.
I had sent the photos and told him about the counterbore. Counterbores on Finnish rifles are not uncommon, and usually result from a barrel obstruction such as snow in the end of the barrel. Since the OP represented himself as an Expert on Finnish rifles, I made the mistake of assuming that he WAS an advanced or knowledgeable collector, and would know WHY most of the rifles were counterbored. Finnish Armourers were provided with a kit for counterboring these rifles to make a good useable rifle so the repair was not a Bubba job. I was asking $325 for the rifle and the OP attempted to low-ball offer so I told him $275 plus $30 shipping. In fact the shipping was more and I paid approximately another $10 to ship this rifle to him.
In his "critique" of the VKT, the OP said he wanted a SHOOTER. I had fired this rifle, and it was very accurate, and he said that was what he wanted, and resale value was not a big issue. The OP HAS fired the rifle, and he has found out that the rifle is very accurate.
The OP has had the rifle for over a week, and on March 3, he sent an e-mail suggesting that he would like a reduction in the price paid. It is generally accepted on this forum that THREE DAYS is a reasonable time for an inspection of a rifle and notification sent to the other party. It is also generally accepted that IF YOU FIRE THE RIFLE, AND THE RIFLE PERFORMS, THEN THE RIFLE HAS BEEN ACCEPTED.
So, a week later, after shooting the rifle and the OP does agree that it is an accurate rifle, on March 3, the OP sends me an e-mail. Then, at 09:20 the following morning, the OP posts this thread. Good Lord, does this guy expect everyone to be at his beck and call and answer his emails and inquiries and statements immediately. How about giving someone a bit of time to respond?
"I emailed the seller and he said he did yell me.it was counterbored. I knew right away things would not progress well lol. I emailed him asking if he'd be interested in refunding some of my money, but haven't received a reply." Not everyone sits on their computer all the time and you have to give someone time to make a reply. Less than 24 hours elapsed and the OP way posting on this thread. This statement by the OP makes it sound like he sent one e-mail, but actually there WERE TWO E-MAILS ---OVER A WEEK APART. The first one was about the counterbore at the time he received the rifle. THE SECOND e-mail was OVER A WEEK LATER AFTER HE HAD POSESSION OF THE RIFLE FOR A WEEK, AND HE HAD FIRED THE RIFLE.
The OP has also invented some things in this thread that are simply NOT true, and I would even say border on the exterior by-products of a Male Bovine farm animal.
I am not going to keep a pissing contest going here, so this is the only post I will make on this. Basically, the OP said that he wanted a SHOOTER, which he got and admits that it is very accurate. He kept the rifle for a week, and he FIRED it, ACCEPTING THE CONDITION IN WHICH HE RECEIVED IT. If the rifle was NOT acceptable, then why would he have fired it, and he should have asked for an adjustment or refund within three days, not over a week later.
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gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
My apologizes to the seller for my previous post. Yes, it could have perhaps been made a little more clear that the barrel was bulged . However, the buyer should have expressed his intent immediately, not waited over a week, and should not have fired the rifle if he had doubts about wanting a rifle with a bulge.
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There is no "inventiveness" involved. I have every message that went back and forth between us. Things are a little on the twisted side from your point of view.
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I know why many Finnish rifles were counterbored and own several. Counterbore was never the issue. I've never declared myself to be an expert. I believed, as did others who looked at the pictures for me, that the rifle had been varnished. I said based on that I would be buying it as a shooter, not based on a giant bulge in the barrel that I had no knowledge about. In the end I accepted the explanation of the varnish as you told it. Seemed reasonable. What was my low ball offer?
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Believe me if you want, or take it as more alleged "inventiveness". I didn't even notice the bulge at first. I had about 5 min to look at the rifle between working overtime shifts due to a staffing crisis and trying to get my stuff out of a garage that collapsed under snow load. As far as firing it, what exactly was I supposed to do with it? A guy who explains selling you a rifle with a big bulge by saying " Hey, told you it was counterbored " probably isn't taking it back lol. I figured I might as well see if it would hit anything.
OP, I wasn't going to say anything BUT now I know who you're yakking about.
I'm sorry but as someone who has bought from buffdog, shot with him, slurped back coffee and hung around with him for years. I'm going to say this:
There's no way that Buffdog would ruin his reputation for $275. No effing way he'd work you over, lie, cheat or steal from you!!
He ain't that kinda guy and I'll stake my reputation on it.
He's one of the finest people I've ever known PERIOD.
Maybe next time give the guy a chance to make it right instead of spewing nonsense!
Jeez, what happened to this forum??
I'm sorry but as someone who has bought from buffdog, shot with him, slurped back coffee and hung around with him for years. I'm going to say this:
There's no way that Buffdog would ruin his reputation for $275. No effing way he'd work you over, lie, cheat or steal from you!!
He ain't that kinda guy and I'll stake my reputation on it.
He's one of the finest people I've ever known PERIOD.
Maybe next time give the guy a chance to make it right instead of spewing nonsense!
Jeez, what happened to this forum??
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gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
I'm not doubting either side as there is fault on both sides. Yes, the bulge should have been clearly disclosed. And however busy as you were, the rifle should have been looked over fairly well and a complaint lodged ASAP within the first 3 days before even seeing how the gun shot. Regardless, this thread is only opinions and can't solve the issue. That is ultimately between you and the seller to make it right.
I received the rifle on Feb. 25. On Feb 26 I noticed the bulge. I emailed him and asked if he was aware of the bulge. I assumed the guy owned a load of rifles and overlooked it. He emailed me back saying he was aware of the bulge and at that point I wasn't really sure how to handle it. This is new territory for me. I should have immediately asked to work it out like you say. I will know to do so in the future.
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