As a potential new guy to f-class, Do you mind sharing your cleaning method?
How often do you clean your barrel? Have some other newbie questions as well, thanks.
- Thread starter Brappp306
- Start date
As a potential new guy to f-class, Do you mind sharing your cleaning method?
How I clean depends upon whether or not I will need first round accuracy after I clean it.
Some matches permit “sighter shots”, “Blow off” or a “fouling period”. Usually it’s a one minute blow off where you can bang off a few rounds to foul your clean barrel. If this is the case then I can clean the barrel real well before the match. If not then I need to clean not so well = focusing more on the carbon than the copper.
What I'm getting at regarding how the rifle shoots after you clean it is the rifle will not shoot the same once you have removed all the copper. The build-up of copper inside the barrel acts like a lubricant for the bullet. When a bullet travels down a clean barrel the coefficient of friction is not the same as it will be after the barrel is coated with a layer of copper. This affects your point of impact and in most cases the change is not predicable during the transition.
If you clean very well prior to a match that does not allow for a blow off period you will struggle with the first few rounds until it settles down and that will cost you points. I once shot a 300 yard ISU match that consisted of 6 x 20 round strings over the course of 2 days. In this particular match we were permitted unlimited sighter shots and once we were ready we instructed our score keeper that we were going on score, after that, all rounds count.
My very first sighter shot was a pinwheel center in the 1 MOA Bull at that time. I thought there was no point wasting ammo and told my score keeper to begin keeping score. Well that was my mistake, because my next 3 shots edged out and cost me 3 points. Here’s the thing... My final score after 2 days of shooting was 1197/1200. The only shots that I fired over 2 full days of shooting that missed the bull occurred during the first 3 shots on score as the barrel was beginning to foul. That’s a lesson I will never forget.
To clean the barrel you need the right tools. You will not find it at Canadian Tire. You’ll need a plastic coated Dewey cleaning rod and the adapters, bits and pieces to suit your caliber. I prefer the wrap around jag – not the push through style. Best to order directly from Dewey’s web site, so you get exactly what you want. Don’t count on your local gun store to have it.
You will also need a good bore guide. I like the white nylon ones from Sinclair Intl with the O ring on the tip.
As for patches, you can use almost any, but find the kind that fits with the right snugness. Some will fit better wrapped on a diagonal and others straight. When you find patches that fit perfect - buy a ton of them.
The solvent of choice for me is Montana Extreme. It stinks of ammonia but it works. I also use JB bore paste with Kroil oil on a patch near the end. I sometime use IOSSO Bore paste.
After about 300 rounds or so – depending on the caliber I can feel the resistance begin to increase when pushing the tight patch through. This resistance is caused by heat checking in the barrel. This is where cracks in the metal begin to form and it acts like a file on the bullet and the resistance affects point of impact. My fix for this is a patch or two real fine scotch bright maybe 1000 grit or 1500. I soak it good with solvent and short stroke it starting from the back and gradually extending forward. I can feel the resistance change the more I work and eventually things smooth out.
Don't ever pull back in once you come out the muzzle. Just push it all the way out at that point.
These things are very subtle and you need to pay very close attention to every little thing. I can describe it, but you need to be the one to feel it and understand what the rifle is saying to you.
These days you need to shoot almost perfect 10 rounds into 1/2 MOA at 300 in a squadded match alternating shots between 3 shooters. If you miss the V-Bull once at 300, you'll probably win the distance. If you miss it twice, there's a good chance you lost the event.
Last edited:
Thanks! That was very informative. I think I'm cleaning too much, but I've never tried bore paste or scotch brite. That kind of makes sense to me though. Would the heat checking of the barrel cause the gun to take 20 rounds to "come in" because the copper fouling is smoothing out the checking?
That's a cool idea but I already have a bore snake so I don't need to make one.
What is your opinion about using them to clean precision rifles? I have heard strong opinions both ways. People often worry about metal rods damaging the bore and a snake seems like a good way to avoid that.
What is your opinion about using them to clean precision rifles? I have heard strong opinions both ways. People often worry about metal rods damaging the bore and a snake seems like a good way to avoid that.
The homemade boresnake described above is about a 1000 times more useful than the ones you buy used the way they are intended. Pulling a dry boresnake through a precision rifle will do absolutely nothing to clean it. If you've lost accuracy its due to the buildup of copper and/or carbon. Those need to be dissolved with a solvent or removed with a fine abrasive like JB or IOSSO. Pulling a dry boresnake through a bore ain't gonna do crap to remove them. And lets not even get started how it can damage your crown and throat or how screwed you are if it breaks off in the bore.
Once again thanks for all the info. Much appreciated. I see if differentiates a lot! I do use bore snakes to clean my AR and hunting rifle, but with solvent and lube in the process. With my Precision unit I picked up a tipton bore guide and carbon rod. One thing I found when using the push through patch tips, matching the size of the caliber they seem REALLY tight, don't really like it. Do any of you buy one size(Caliber) smaller tips to make it slide through the barrel more gently? I never use brushed tips, Just patches and a snake.
My precision rifle : during the break in, I ran a patch with Hopps through the barrel every 5 shots or so. After 50 or so I run a medium loose patch with oil after every shooting session...I never use a wire brush.
I use a bore snake in my shotgun and .22's.
I use a bore snake in my shotgun and .22's.
I use a one caliber smaller nylon brush, like a 22 in a 243, with 2 or 3 drops of Wipe Out on a cloth patch. I drape the cloth patch over the brush and run it through the bore. I think the brush will push the cloth patch into the corners better.
Shouldn't be super tight.
As you're not even reloading here, the minute accuracy differences you will see with different cleaning regimes isn't going to matter.
You'll be fine with a bore snake and just patches.
Most high volume precision shooters have agreed that it's okay to clean the carbon out, but leave the copper in. So yank a clean bore snake through with some powder solvent after a day of shooting and then run half a dozen patches. When accuracy starts to fall off after 300, 500, 700 rounds, use wipeout and strip the copper out, and start again.
Quality of the barrel generally dictates how many rounds they'll go before cleaning, I've had savages that need cleaning at 100 rounds due to chamber reamer pilot marks, and bartlein customs that would go several thousand rounds...
Good info here on a number of subjects that you're going to be bumping into...
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn
Chinbullco
Regular
- Location
- NW Alberta
This my opinion on jacket fouling, leaving it in rifle bore and assuming its a lubricating agent is wrong. Copper on copper is as much a lubricant as steel on steel. Rifle accuracy may go 500/600 rounds but won't if jacket fouling exists. Powder burning in barrel creates heat, increased heat vaporizes condensation in bore that can contain extremely acidic compounds. If these compounds get between the copper fouling and barrel steel, barrel pitting is bound to occur. Wipe-Out is a handy copper fouling indicator and I use it frequently while developing loads. When you reach the point where 50 rounds down the tube won't create copper fouling shoot the hell out of the barrel and don't clean until accuracy drops off. I don't do a barrel break-in. Only try to keep barrel from copper fouling / bore pitting. Many paths lead to same destination, this is how I determine the need to clean.
Short Range BR is a different animal from the standpoint of the factory rifle, precision rifle shooter or F-class shooter.
For the guys and gals that shoort the SR game, they want to shoot 0's to LOW 1's group after group. The only way that is done when looking at the current TOP shooters is a STRICT cleaning regim after each group and wind flags.
The SR game is a game , I feel the only, where one has some sort of contol where the bullet will end up with any sort of consistency. It has nothing to do with cleaning wears a barrel out. SS barrels are harder than bronze brushes. Clean away. Just use a GOOD bore guide. A good barrel, with a tuned load will almost always put the first shot where it is supposed to go followed by the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and fifth.
Just a SR BR shooters perspective.
For the guys and gals that shoort the SR game, they want to shoot 0's to LOW 1's group after group. The only way that is done when looking at the current TOP shooters is a STRICT cleaning regim after each group and wind flags.
The SR game is a game , I feel the only, where one has some sort of contol where the bullet will end up with any sort of consistency. It has nothing to do with cleaning wears a barrel out. SS barrels are harder than bronze brushes. Clean away. Just use a GOOD bore guide. A good barrel, with a tuned load will almost always put the first shot where it is supposed to go followed by the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and fifth.
Just a SR BR shooters perspective.
Its always best to understand why you're cleaning and what you are cleaning out before you really get into cleaning.
Are you cleaning out the loose debris left behind from the powder and prime material….little brass bits, carbon, contaminants from primer compound…. this is essentially the visible crud you can see after each shot.
Or are you cleaning out the copper that has embedded itself into the open pores of the metal of the barrel and has embedded into the crevices of the rifling?
The next thing you need to think about is what is the best way to get the crud out?? first issue you can easily do with running a patch through for the copper fouling you have to used solvents….
Then you have to decided what is the best way to get the solvents into the bore, and what is the best method to remove? and this is where a lot of the debate starts.
Some guys like running a bore snake, some a wood dowel (old timers maybe), some metal rod some carbon fibre rod….or pick your poison
what you have to watch for is where the rode or rope goes in, where it comes out, and what it can do to the bore while sliding either way while inside and especially when exiting
rubbing any contaminated surface in an abrasive way anywhere along the path, chamber, bore or crown, can act like sand paper and scar the barrel, and any time you scar the barrel you can affect the accuracy as now you leave a scar where copper can build up, or gasses can escape….especially at the crown. if you have little channel…microscopic even…. on one side of the crown and not the other, gas will slip by the base of the bullet before it leaves the barrel, putting a lateral force on the base of the bullet which can cause is to wiggle a little as it exits the muzzle, and this will indeed affect accuracy..
The best rods are ones that cannot hold any material in them at all, you don't want any contaminants embedded in the rod, if you have no contaminants in it then it doesn't act like sand paper inside your bore. Hard clean rods are typically the best.
One of the best solvents for cleaning fouling in a bore is wipeout foam cleaner.. it gets into all the small crevices, and leaves a very very thin layer of lubricant behind when you clean it out
Things that affect accuracy the most are typically copper fouling as it builds up in the bore it changes the diameter of the bore and the next bullet that passes by gets squished a little more than the previous bullet, which causes it to fly a little different. when that happens its time to clean.
Some very high quality barrels that are hand lapped, are so smooth inside front the make that they need very little cleaning as they simply do not foul.
how fast and hard do you push the bullets? this will affect fouling
how good are the bullets you shoot? this will affect fouling
they are many variables that affect fouling, and fouling dictates when you clean.
don't forget any cleaning method that damages the barrel in anyway will affect accuracy.
How you clean depends on how well you understand what it is you are trying to clean
(don't forget the obvious and that is to clean the crud out of the bolt face and breach)
Are you cleaning out the loose debris left behind from the powder and prime material….little brass bits, carbon, contaminants from primer compound…. this is essentially the visible crud you can see after each shot.
Or are you cleaning out the copper that has embedded itself into the open pores of the metal of the barrel and has embedded into the crevices of the rifling?
The next thing you need to think about is what is the best way to get the crud out?? first issue you can easily do with running a patch through for the copper fouling you have to used solvents….
Then you have to decided what is the best way to get the solvents into the bore, and what is the best method to remove? and this is where a lot of the debate starts.
Some guys like running a bore snake, some a wood dowel (old timers maybe), some metal rod some carbon fibre rod….or pick your poison
what you have to watch for is where the rode or rope goes in, where it comes out, and what it can do to the bore while sliding either way while inside and especially when exiting
rubbing any contaminated surface in an abrasive way anywhere along the path, chamber, bore or crown, can act like sand paper and scar the barrel, and any time you scar the barrel you can affect the accuracy as now you leave a scar where copper can build up, or gasses can escape….especially at the crown. if you have little channel…microscopic even…. on one side of the crown and not the other, gas will slip by the base of the bullet before it leaves the barrel, putting a lateral force on the base of the bullet which can cause is to wiggle a little as it exits the muzzle, and this will indeed affect accuracy..
The best rods are ones that cannot hold any material in them at all, you don't want any contaminants embedded in the rod, if you have no contaminants in it then it doesn't act like sand paper inside your bore. Hard clean rods are typically the best.
One of the best solvents for cleaning fouling in a bore is wipeout foam cleaner.. it gets into all the small crevices, and leaves a very very thin layer of lubricant behind when you clean it out
Things that affect accuracy the most are typically copper fouling as it builds up in the bore it changes the diameter of the bore and the next bullet that passes by gets squished a little more than the previous bullet, which causes it to fly a little different. when that happens its time to clean.
Some very high quality barrels that are hand lapped, are so smooth inside front the make that they need very little cleaning as they simply do not foul.
how fast and hard do you push the bullets? this will affect fouling
how good are the bullets you shoot? this will affect fouling
they are many variables that affect fouling, and fouling dictates when you clean.
don't forget any cleaning method that damages the barrel in anyway will affect accuracy.
How you clean depends on how well you understand what it is you are trying to clean
(don't forget the obvious and that is to clean the crud out of the bolt face and breach)
Last edited:
Article posted on 6mmbr about boresnakes from the USAMU:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/03/usamu-talks-about-pull-though-bore-snakes/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/03/usamu-talks-about-pull-though-bore-snakes/
