Critical differences between ipsc and 3 gun rules?
- Thread starter GR0M
- Start date
3 gun nation is an organization that runs several matches across the US and offers a ruleset/affiliation to local clubs so they can run matches using their rules. The main advantage to this is that you can run classifier matches to try and get a sense of how you compare to other shooters using the same stages.
There are many other matches run locally (either major of minor/club level matches) that will use their own rules - but many of the major matches will use rules that are pretty similar (each match will usually have a link to the local/match rules on the main website).
The main differences will relate to:
1) Scoring - commonly it will be straight time (the actual time used to shoot the stage + any added on penalties) or stage points (each stage is worth a certain number of points - fastest adjusted time gets the top points, all others the percentage they had of the top shooter). Most matches require 2 hits on paper target to neutralize and avoid penalties, steel must fall or "flash" as indicated.
2) Divisions - most major matches run your division based on your rifle - "Tactical" divisions use .223 and "Heavy Metal" will be .308, and either Optics (if you have a scope with magnification capability) or Irons (true open sights often, but many matches include red dot sights with no magnification in this category). Most matches also have open division (almost always use of a bipod puts you here, or more that one optical scope), and occasionally trooper class (you have to carry all equipment for the match on you the whole time O_O). Certain pistol and shotgun features will be limited in many matches as well (ie no compensators or optical sights unless in open), and occasionally you will have caliber requirements also (ie, 12 gauge only and pump shotguns only, pistol must be .45 and max 8 round mags in heavy metal).
Obviously, there can often be minor (but sometimes important!) differences based on local range rules or organizer preferences (ie do you need chamber flags, how strict they are on dedicated safe zones, whether you pre-load shotguns as a group or come to the line empty and load there, firearms slung or not, etc).
As for IPSC, it does not have a true 3 gun format as most people in this forum will speak of - using 3 firearm types on the same stage with guns staged/slung. IPSC has the grand tournament format where each stage can only have 1 firearm type (ie pistol, shotgun OR rifle) and the "multigun" function comes from running several stages of each firearm type under that firearms IPSC ruleset and combining the results into a total overall match. I've seen tournaments run with stages intermixed (ie shoot a pistol stage, then a rifle stage, then a shotgun stage, back to a pistol stage, etc) or run as a "pistol match" one day, then a "shotgun match" and "rifle match" on separate dates with the overall scores put together to get a tournament winner.
Personally I love the multiple guns on 1 stage format compared to the IPSC concept. I am member of 3 Gun Nation and they are very good for allowing a standard ruleset that keeps things consistent from match to match, but if you do get into some US matches you'll see that it's still pretty open in the market as to what rules you use - the bottom line is you'll need to read through a few pages to get the key points for each match you shoot. There are quite a few groups in the Southwestern Ontario area running matches, I'd suggest popping out to a match or two to get the feel, but a warning now that once you see it you'll probably be hooked for life!
Enjoy!!!!
lonedrone
There are many other matches run locally (either major of minor/club level matches) that will use their own rules - but many of the major matches will use rules that are pretty similar (each match will usually have a link to the local/match rules on the main website).
The main differences will relate to:
1) Scoring - commonly it will be straight time (the actual time used to shoot the stage + any added on penalties) or stage points (each stage is worth a certain number of points - fastest adjusted time gets the top points, all others the percentage they had of the top shooter). Most matches require 2 hits on paper target to neutralize and avoid penalties, steel must fall or "flash" as indicated.
2) Divisions - most major matches run your division based on your rifle - "Tactical" divisions use .223 and "Heavy Metal" will be .308, and either Optics (if you have a scope with magnification capability) or Irons (true open sights often, but many matches include red dot sights with no magnification in this category). Most matches also have open division (almost always use of a bipod puts you here, or more that one optical scope), and occasionally trooper class (you have to carry all equipment for the match on you the whole time O_O). Certain pistol and shotgun features will be limited in many matches as well (ie no compensators or optical sights unless in open), and occasionally you will have caliber requirements also (ie, 12 gauge only and pump shotguns only, pistol must be .45 and max 8 round mags in heavy metal).
Obviously, there can often be minor (but sometimes important!) differences based on local range rules or organizer preferences (ie do you need chamber flags, how strict they are on dedicated safe zones, whether you pre-load shotguns as a group or come to the line empty and load there, firearms slung or not, etc).
As for IPSC, it does not have a true 3 gun format as most people in this forum will speak of - using 3 firearm types on the same stage with guns staged/slung. IPSC has the grand tournament format where each stage can only have 1 firearm type (ie pistol, shotgun OR rifle) and the "multigun" function comes from running several stages of each firearm type under that firearms IPSC ruleset and combining the results into a total overall match. I've seen tournaments run with stages intermixed (ie shoot a pistol stage, then a rifle stage, then a shotgun stage, back to a pistol stage, etc) or run as a "pistol match" one day, then a "shotgun match" and "rifle match" on separate dates with the overall scores put together to get a tournament winner.
Personally I love the multiple guns on 1 stage format compared to the IPSC concept. I am member of 3 Gun Nation and they are very good for allowing a standard ruleset that keeps things consistent from match to match, but if you do get into some US matches you'll see that it's still pretty open in the market as to what rules you use - the bottom line is you'll need to read through a few pages to get the key points for each match you shoot. There are quite a few groups in the Southwestern Ontario area running matches, I'd suggest popping out to a match or two to get the feel, but a warning now that once you see it you'll probably be hooked for life!
Enjoy!!!!
lonedrone
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The difference is....one "ipsc " is well structured and safe.....and follows the "same" rules."they are there for a reason "!
3-gun is the wild west with much needed safety issues, ....they just make it up as they go. Spray & pray "accuracy through volume".
Some 3 gun events are Very professional, closely following "ipsc". I think the REST should follow this example.
I seen way to much Fail & safety issues around here with 3gun and dropped out.
3-gun is the wild west with much needed safety issues, ....they just make it up as they go. Spray & pray "accuracy through volume".
Some 3 gun events are Very professional, closely following "ipsc". I think the REST should follow this example.
I seen way to much Fail & safety issues around here with 3gun and dropped out.
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That's a pretty broad brush you're painting 3 gun with. You must have shot it in many different places to get that view, where were they?
IPSC isn't the end-all and be-all of safety.
I did it for 3 years and got to see the good and the bad. Most places were really well structured and safe. One place in particular was down right dangerous. And no, IPCS isn't the end all....but its safe and structured right across the board.
Your first reply makes it sound like safe 3 gun is the minority. All "spray and pray" and "make it up as they go along".
Now you say it was only one place that was bad. Did you try and help straighten them out with your experience?
No I didn't. I just think the IPCS rules make it more fun and equal to all.
- Location
- Fort St John B.C.
versus what other rules ? most clubs are using idpa style scoring and rules modified to fit the multigun format.... even the 3gun nation rules above seem to be modified idpa style rules and scoring.
I have not seen any safety issues in the 2 dozen matches i have attended in the last 3 years.
You'll find a great deal of similarity between IPSC and USPSA Multigun, as well as 3gun Nation matches, in terms of consistency. Other matches must be measured on their individual merit.. some "can" be a little wild west, whereas most are closely following the rulebooks from the larger bodies, but have some local, or match specific issues where it's often better to have their own rules..
lone ranger, it sounds like you may have had a bad experience with a local club to give you that impression.
Having been to many major 3 gun events in several states, safety is a key component of these matches for all competitors and officials. I would certainly feel comfortable with stating that the safety with respect to gun handling and course of fire construction is very similar to IPSC and USPSA at most major events. I obviously can't comment on club level events as they may be a bit more "fast and loose".
The big difference between say a 3 Gun Nation rule set and IPSC is that most "minutia" are left to the match director/range masters discretion and resolved with a common sense approach rather than adding in 20 different rules to try and cover/explain/pre-empt any gaming - an approach I personally find refreshing at these types of events. This is not to say that rulings are random or unequally enforced, just that the matches really run in a truly "freestyle" approach.
lonedrone
Having been to many major 3 gun events in several states, safety is a key component of these matches for all competitors and officials. I would certainly feel comfortable with stating that the safety with respect to gun handling and course of fire construction is very similar to IPSC and USPSA at most major events. I obviously can't comment on club level events as they may be a bit more "fast and loose".
The big difference between say a 3 Gun Nation rule set and IPSC is that most "minutia" are left to the match director/range masters discretion and resolved with a common sense approach rather than adding in 20 different rules to try and cover/explain/pre-empt any gaming - an approach I personally find refreshing at these types of events. This is not to say that rulings are random or unequally enforced, just that the matches really run in a truly "freestyle" approach.
lonedrone
Thanks, excellent post. I would have to agree.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Here's something to consider when comparing rule sets - although since IPSC doesn't do true 3-gun, I think it's apples and oranges anyway.
IPSC is almost 40 years old and practiced in over 80 countries, their competitions have seen just about every type of person and situation, and therefore - they've written rule sets to manage that so you can expect to see the same rulings from officials whether you're in Prince George BC, Cebu, Philippines or middle-of-nowhere Australia.
3-Gun Nation is relatively young and might be in a few countries.
When 3-gun nation gets to be 40; has massive World Championships to deal with and is being shot all over the world (and that would be nice) - then its fair to compare apples-to-apples.
I can guarantee you that at that point - it's going to have a lot more rules in print.
And...both are cool & fun - do both if you can.
IPSC is almost 40 years old and practiced in over 80 countries, their competitions have seen just about every type of person and situation, and therefore - they've written rule sets to manage that so you can expect to see the same rulings from officials whether you're in Prince George BC, Cebu, Philippines or middle-of-nowhere Australia.
3-Gun Nation is relatively young and might be in a few countries.
When 3-gun nation gets to be 40; has massive World Championships to deal with and is being shot all over the world (and that would be nice) - then its fair to compare apples-to-apples.
I can guarantee you that at that point - it's going to have a lot more rules in print.
And...both are cool & fun - do both if you can.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
You clearly have not shot an IPSC match at my club when the IPSC lawyers are part of your squad.....
