Optic choice for CQB; help me choose

Longshot338

Longshot338

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Hello fellow GunNutz,

I have been piecing together what I need to shoot Service Rifle competitions. This year, I am ready to start. However, conversations with a close friend of mine and TacticalTeacher have convinced me to start out in CQB competition for a year, and move to Service Rifle when I get the hang of shooting a SR style match.

I am shooting a SA20. Basically unmodified other than green furniture and a tri-rail (I wanted something as close to a C7 as I could legally own). I have a question regarding optic choices for this platform.

For SR, I was planning on a 1-4 scope, and I purchased a Hi-Lux CMR from the EE. It is mounted with a Warne R.A.M.P. Unimount, giving me a Lower-1/3 Cowitness.
This is the scope: http://hi-luxoptics.com/index.php/riflescopes2/cmr-series/cmr-98.html
This is the mount: http://warnescopemounts.com/product/r-a-m-p-mount/

However, given the much shorter ranges in CQB, I was wondering if I would be better running a non-magnified sight. I have an imitation ACOG-style reddot/holosight; a Bushnell 1xMP that mounts with an Absolute Cowitness height.
This is the sight: http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/ar-optics/1x-mp

The Bushnell will allow me to mount my CC BUIS underneath it, but I would have to remove the sight to use the BUIS.

The Warne ramp won't allow the mounting of my BUIS, but it will allow me to mount a micro-reddot on a 45-degree angle at the rear.

I already own all the components for both systems; no purchase is required. The only bias I may have is slapping a lower-end holosight on my rifle and having a $300 scope with a $200 mount sitting at home for a year. Ultimately I want the most suited option; if that involves using the bushnell this year, then so be it.

Which setup would you reccommend for CQB, and why?

Thanks for the help guys; I am learning lots from this section of the forum!

Longshot
 
I like red dots for CQB. I use a Vortex Sparc. I have tried all kinds of stuff, like fixed magnification prism sights, variable scopes, fixed scopes, and irons. My highest scores were with a red dot and iron sights.

If your eyes are still reasonably good, I think a low/no-zoom fixed-power sight is ideal. The targets aren't very far away and the target area is relatively large, even for a 5-point score. I find most of the trick to getting good rifle scores is in technique of rifle management rather than the actual shooting--timing shots to make the best use of exposures, re-acquiring targets after mag changes on the lock, practicing the shooting while moving (this is where a huge number of points are dropped by most people, and practicing it can really bring your score up) and learning to be comfortable in modified prone. Once you have all these figured out, it's purely preference.

The reason I like a red dot is they're fast to find targets with and I can easily shoot with both eyes open. After I swap mags, or while walking, I can pretty quickly spot the dot and put it on the target. When using any degree of magnification, I found that there are more wobble than I wanted and I would end up trying to compensate or fix it for 'perfect' shots when taking coarsely accurate shots is typically good enough for 400+ scores.

I'm a very mediocre shooter so take that for what it's worth. The Aimpoints with the swinging magnifier really seem to be ideal for this type of competition.
 
It is absolutely perverted, but....

because the match uses Fiq 11 with very small bullseye, plus there is a lot of time to shoot, it is advantageous to shoot a 3X or 4 X if you want to win.
 
I use a 4x magnifier in front of an EoTech. Just don't cross your targets!
Start from the ground, and bring your barrel up, make sure you're on your number.
 
I shoot just about every CQB match and have tried a large variety of rifles with a variety of sights, including iron, red dot (SPARC) and optics.

For me, the best is a scope in the 1-5 range. Some stages I shoot at 5X, others at 2.5X. A fixed of anything from 2.5 to 4 would work well.

There are some stages where, using some magnification, I can see my shots and center my group as I go.
 
Well, it looks like I will be starting with the CMR then. Thanks for the help.

I will keep an open mind about this; I may try both. However, you have helped me with a starting point.

Thanks guys

Longshot
 
Longshot338 said:
Hello fellow GunNutz,

I have been piecing together what I need to shoot Service Rifle competitions. This year, I am ready to start. However, conversations with a close friend of mine and TacticalTeacher have convinced me to start out in CQB competition for a year, and move to Service Rifle when I get the hang of shooting a SR style match.

I am shooting a SA20. Basically unmodified other than green furniture and a tri-rail (I wanted something as close to a C7 as I could legally own). I have a question regarding optic choices for this platform.

For SR, I was planning on a 1-4 scope, and I purchased a Hi-Lux CMR from the EE. It is mounted with a Warne R.A.M.P. Unimount, giving me a Lower-1/3 Cowitness.
This is the scope: http://hi-luxoptics.com/index.php/riflescopes2/cmr-series/cmr-98.html
This is the mount: http://warnescopemounts.com/product/r-a-m-p-mount/

However, given the much shorter ranges in CQB, I was wondering if I would be better running a non-magnified sight. I have an imitation ACOG-style reddot/holosight; a Bushnell 1xMP that mounts with an Absolute Cowitness height.
This is the sight: http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/ar-optics/1x-mp

The Bushnell will allow me to mount my CC BUIS underneath it, but I would have to remove the sight to use the BUIS.

The Warne ramp won't allow the mounting of my BUIS, but it will allow me to mount a micro-reddot on a 45-degree angle at the rear.

I already own all the components for both systems; no purchase is required. The only bias I may have is slapping a lower-end holosight on my rifle and having a $300 scope with a $200 mount sitting at home for a year. Ultimately I want the most suited option; if that involves using the bushnell this year, then so be it.

Which setup would you reccommend for CQB, and why?

Thanks for the help guys; I am learning lots from this section of the forum!

Longshot
Click to expand...

I want to get their CMR. Now I'll get to see one in action first. HiLux scopes are very good, I have 3 of their scopes on various rifles. I put their M1000 ART on my AR15 for Service Rifle.
 
However, given the much shorter ranges in CQB, I was wondering if I would be better running a non-magnified sight.

I have a cheap 1-4x scope for CQB. The only time I zoom in with 4X is the modified prone. You can see your hits as they happen.
 
greentips said:
It is absolutely perverted, but....

because the match uses Fiq 11 with very small bullseye, plus there is a lot of time to shoot, it is advantageous to shoot a 3X or 4 X if you want to win.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. To win at skills and drills type CQB you need to be able to put everything in the Bull...............of your own target.
 
Last year was my first year and I was using a red dot and did very well. Learning from that I noticed other shooters having an advantage with magnification so this year I will be using a 3X with my red dot
 
I don't mean to necropost here, but I'm thinking of getting back into CQB - it's entirely too much fun! But I'm wondering if I've made a mistake in ditching my rear iron sight to free up rail space for the eotech magnifier I got. Sure, it's a lot nicer having 3x magnification, but isn't it an all around better idea to make sure you always have a backup? I don't want to lose any of the little discipline I've accrued to date when shooting with irons. Also thinking of switching from a 25yd zero to a 36yd zero.
 
I quite enjoyed my SparcII at CQB Match 2 this year. That was fun but I really miss my ACOG TA31F, and now (it's June 2015) I'm back in an ACOG TA31F 4x. So I've got both 1x and 4x optics. The 1x SparcII is on my wife's 10.5" carbine!

Get what works for you and your eyes, your rifles, your budget, your shooting game, your caliber, your body geometry (some people use vests or plates or chest rigs), your target size, your target shape, etc , etc. Get what you want, not what we are yakking about on the Innernet! :)

Try many optics if you can like Ganderite does. I was there for many , many years in Service Rifle matches. :cool: It's all good learning! ;)

Cheers and keep on helping them nooobs out there! :wave:

Barney
 
Mr. Bjorn said:
I can't remember if it was you Barney, or if it was Tim... but I still hear that voice in my head "Evolve your kit!"

Now I am gonna go bomb up a sammich and a beer :)
Click to expand...

Unlike something like IPSC, where you find a specific setup and stick with it, I find I rarely shoot CQB twice with the same configuration A pistol mag change hangs up on some gear, well it's time to move it, or use something different. That stupid Velcro flap got left closed, cut it off. Too hot in vest, bring out the chest rig. My VZ grips get full of dirt in modified prone in my IPSC holster, change to a Bladetech and swing it back a bit. Look and see what others are using and take away the best ideas.

Probably the most valuable pieces of kit are a folding table to get your gear off of the ground (reloading mags while squatting on the ground is not for an old guy), and saw horses to lean your targets up against for scoring and patching (again, you youngsters may enjoy doing it on your knees...).
 
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