^^^^^^ this!
Fake Leupold Scopes.
- Thread starter dthunter
- Start date
^^^^^^ this!
Sure its ,,they are both unethical in their business practises.. Anyway...have fun with the thread..its getting old. Im out.
Can you test how close you can be to a target and be parallax free as well?
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
A company not honoring the warranty on its product unless it was purchased through an authorized distributor in that country is a very common practice and not at all limited to Leupold and Korth. Google "grey market" if you want more info. It is in no way similar to selling a counterfeit product.
15 yards. cannot get any closer.
Ok i have to ask. Who did your friend deal with? Was it a chinese vendor residing in china? Or was it from a local (ie. Canada or maybe even usa)? want to know why i'm asking? It's because when i was looking at fake canada goose parkas, the most expensive i've seen is $400 from chinese vendors.
I don't think we should be trying to have threads deleted on purpose yeah I know I said I wouldn't play.....
Anyways I did some checking and Leupold US did not copyright that name in China like Apple did that is why these scopes can have the same name. But I still get everyone's perspective I just want a cheap scope that works could have Rambo on it for all I care. Hey I can wear my office tie for a headband too.
Anyways I did some checking and Leupold US did not copyright that name in China like Apple did that is why these scopes can have the same name. But I still get everyone's perspective I just want a cheap scope that works could have Rambo on it for all I care. Hey I can wear my office tie for a headband too.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Nope, bought it off ebay from a guy in Montreal. Trying to pass of a counterfeit as real is only feasible if the discount isn't too much.
I've seen them on 50BMG's.
They are a solid scope. Not many better options until you spend over $500.
I think HK45auto you are confused. The Elite Tactical ( used to be 3200 series ) 10x is, indeed, a very solid scope and is the one I usually recommend this to folks looking for M14 optics. The even better one is the very rare bird indeed - the 30mm Made in Japan Tasco Super Sniper 10x.
If you have time take a read, this is from a few years ago but goes into Leupold having binos and rangefinders made in China and then shipped to rest of world for Leupold to resell.
Now where it gets interesting is a Chinese company actually registered the Leupold name after they started making items for Leupold. Then they took it a step further and registered a bunch of other scope company names, some names they sold back some they kept.
Pretty greasy no doubt but really what did US companies think was going to happen when they opened Pandoras Box and asked the Chinese to make them goods...
Anyway its about half way down in the document it mentions the riflescopes and then goes almost to the end of the doc in a couple sections. Guess Leupold tried to work with the Chinese then filed appeals and failed, in fact could have been charged themselves due to the Leupold name being registered to the Chinese. This makes total sense now why these scopes cannot be stopped from importation. Leupold cannot have it both ways they lost the fight when they approached the Chinese to make products bearing the Leupold name. When they figured it out it was too late. To date Leupold still are using China to make some of their goods. In fact it has also been stated the glass is from Japan but Leupold is pretty tight lipped where their components are sourced, they only say the scopes are assembled in the US to Leupolds standards.`The fact they continue to still market fully assembled goods made in China demonstrates that they are not prepared to go after the Chinese fully, like I said can`t have it both ways....
Don`t think it is really a money thing to Leupold but a reputation thing for scopes but then again why do they continue to sell China manufactured items with the Leupold name to this day.
I was surprised to learn the Chinese are manufacturing far more scopes for well known brands then I thought, so good chance you scope has Chinese components without scope companies disclosing this fact.
So I think we may need to revisit who we trust as far as not using Chinese parts or companies that continue to resell Chinese goods under their label while complaining about only certain products being counterfeit.... What we have here is a very very slippery slope of what we thought was the truth about Chinese outsourcing.....
I sincerely hope this thread is not compromised as this is info we all really need to understand as it is buried pretty deep and not fully discussed among scope makers.
From Leupold directly after it was asked from a Cabela client::
All Leupold rangefinders are designed in Beaverton, Oregon by our in-house optical and electrical engineers and manufactured by trusted business partners in China. Unfortunately, just like all other electronics today (your TV, phone, computer) the industry moved off-shore in search of more favorable conditions. As a result, electronic products have become extremely expensive to manufacture domestically. While people favor goods made in the US, our research shows they are not willing to pay the premium required to manufacture this category of product domestically.
From Leupold confirming their binos are imported, yes from China... Just not specified.
5. Do your binoculars have a lifetime warranty?
Imported binoculars and spotting scopes are covered by our Leupold Limited Lifetime warranty. “Limited” means they are warranted to the original purchaser.
The question of counterfeit seems to be unclear when viewed from both sides of the globe when we consider Leupold themselves having some of their products being made in China, and sold in the US, but with made in China on the product info. So would a Chinese M1 or M3 style scope that is a registered name of Leupold in China but with made in China on the packaging be the same. I just don`t know anymore after digging into what Leupold is doing in China and over here....
I was skeptical as well before I found this US Government doc!!
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-109shrg63758/html/CHRG-109shrg63758.htm
Now where it gets interesting is a Chinese company actually registered the Leupold name after they started making items for Leupold. Then they took it a step further and registered a bunch of other scope company names, some names they sold back some they kept.
Pretty greasy no doubt but really what did US companies think was going to happen when they opened Pandoras Box and asked the Chinese to make them goods...
Anyway its about half way down in the document it mentions the riflescopes and then goes almost to the end of the doc in a couple sections. Guess Leupold tried to work with the Chinese then filed appeals and failed, in fact could have been charged themselves due to the Leupold name being registered to the Chinese. This makes total sense now why these scopes cannot be stopped from importation. Leupold cannot have it both ways they lost the fight when they approached the Chinese to make products bearing the Leupold name. When they figured it out it was too late. To date Leupold still are using China to make some of their goods. In fact it has also been stated the glass is from Japan but Leupold is pretty tight lipped where their components are sourced, they only say the scopes are assembled in the US to Leupolds standards.`The fact they continue to still market fully assembled goods made in China demonstrates that they are not prepared to go after the Chinese fully, like I said can`t have it both ways....
Don`t think it is really a money thing to Leupold but a reputation thing for scopes but then again why do they continue to sell China manufactured items with the Leupold name to this day.
I was surprised to learn the Chinese are manufacturing far more scopes for well known brands then I thought, so good chance you scope has Chinese components without scope companies disclosing this fact.
So I think we may need to revisit who we trust as far as not using Chinese parts or companies that continue to resell Chinese goods under their label while complaining about only certain products being counterfeit.... What we have here is a very very slippery slope of what we thought was the truth about Chinese outsourcing.....
I sincerely hope this thread is not compromised as this is info we all really need to understand as it is buried pretty deep and not fully discussed among scope makers.
From Leupold directly after it was asked from a Cabela client::
All Leupold rangefinders are designed in Beaverton, Oregon by our in-house optical and electrical engineers and manufactured by trusted business partners in China. Unfortunately, just like all other electronics today (your TV, phone, computer) the industry moved off-shore in search of more favorable conditions. As a result, electronic products have become extremely expensive to manufacture domestically. While people favor goods made in the US, our research shows they are not willing to pay the premium required to manufacture this category of product domestically.
From Leupold confirming their binos are imported, yes from China... Just not specified.
5. Do your binoculars have a lifetime warranty?
Imported binoculars and spotting scopes are covered by our Leupold Limited Lifetime warranty. “Limited” means they are warranted to the original purchaser.
The question of counterfeit seems to be unclear when viewed from both sides of the globe when we consider Leupold themselves having some of their products being made in China, and sold in the US, but with made in China on the product info. So would a Chinese M1 or M3 style scope that is a registered name of Leupold in China but with made in China on the packaging be the same. I just don`t know anymore after digging into what Leupold is doing in China and over here....
I was skeptical as well before I found this US Government doc!!
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-109shrg63758/html/CHRG-109shrg63758.htm
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Yeah I spent the last 2 days digging into this and was surprised how patents work and how they are enforced.
So with the fact that Leupold got in front of US lawmakers and admitted theirs concerns but as well stated that outsourcing was part of their business plan to remain competitive for many of their products I am really confused???
While I get the counterfeit concerns (and yes I got taken with a fake watch but I also knew it was too good of a deal) these scopes are so very obvious no way I would think these are 1100.00 scopes maybe 200.00 or 300.00 scopes never 1100.00 scopes.
Besides I just wanted a scope within my budget that had the features (and no I am not a poser) my biggest concern is the increasing number of parts being outsourced. I found it very curious that many US companies are very quiet on this matter but happy to resell Chinese made products with US names for the sheer profit such as leupold spotting scopes, rangefinders, and binos...........
So where do we go from here, I guess a bunch of us buy these test them report back and leave it to others to decide. Whether you like it or not most likely what you buy today will be supporting the Chinese whether its a Iphone, a Dodge, a Toyota, or gun accessories. At this point the morals were determined by consumer wants and there is nothing you can do to change the need for offshoring to turn profits.
After reading the doc I provided a link to earlier it is obvious that Leupold is doing business extensively with the Chinese but only with certain products so how do you draw the line when Leupold did not register their name before approaching Chinese manufacturers? Why did they wait so long? Why don't they buy their name back and finish this? I think they need the Chinese and are treading carefully.
Thoughts?
So with the fact that Leupold got in front of US lawmakers and admitted theirs concerns but as well stated that outsourcing was part of their business plan to remain competitive for many of their products I am really confused???
While I get the counterfeit concerns (and yes I got taken with a fake watch but I also knew it was too good of a deal) these scopes are so very obvious no way I would think these are 1100.00 scopes maybe 200.00 or 300.00 scopes never 1100.00 scopes.
Besides I just wanted a scope within my budget that had the features (and no I am not a poser) my biggest concern is the increasing number of parts being outsourced. I found it very curious that many US companies are very quiet on this matter but happy to resell Chinese made products with US names for the sheer profit such as leupold spotting scopes, rangefinders, and binos...........
So where do we go from here, I guess a bunch of us buy these test them report back and leave it to others to decide. Whether you like it or not most likely what you buy today will be supporting the Chinese whether its a Iphone, a Dodge, a Toyota, or gun accessories. At this point the morals were determined by consumer wants and there is nothing you can do to change the need for offshoring to turn profits.
After reading the doc I provided a link to earlier it is obvious that Leupold is doing business extensively with the Chinese but only with certain products so how do you draw the line when Leupold did not register their name before approaching Chinese manufacturers? Why did they wait so long? Why don't they buy their name back and finish this? I think they need the Chinese and are treading carefully.
Thoughts?
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Randyhub - thanks for doing this research. It confirms some suspicions I had; years ago when working in Asia I spent some time doing a counterfeit investigation only to have the complainant company (well-know US clothing maker) withdraw and refuse to co-operate further. Made me think that all wasn't as clear cut as people would like us to believe.
It is for the most better to know the devil I think.
I read a bunch last night again and it has become very obvious that there is a shift of business plans that require joint efforts between onshore and offshore companies. The onshore companies like Leupold can either raise their prices and have reduced profits or approach China before the Chinese squeeze them out entirely of markets.
While onshore companies do not make this fact easily available if you dig enough you will find it so question is how do you determine what products support the Chinese directly and what don't? You certainly cannot just say oh I will only by from XYZ Company as they are US, those ideals are lost now forever unless you decide to spends huge amounts of money, even at that point would you ever know if some of the components are not from outsourcing and just assembled with the good old Red, White, and Blue flag?
Onshore parts are disappearing and there is nothing we can do as this is now a full global ecomony......
So your implied conclusion is "buy counterfeit, it is ok"? No it is not.
From the document itself:
But lets get to the Leopold statement:
This are illegal products made with specific attempt to mislead and defraud. I know it and you know it. For a no name rand $100 scope is expensive. If it said "Leopold" on it, $100 is cheap, as we see by excitement created here.
If you still have any doubts why don't you write Leopold and ask them. Why don't you ask any customs broker or even a border guard. "If I knew that these are fake trademarks on my merchandise, is it legal to bring in or ship overseas?" But you know it is not.
PS
Has no nothing to do with legality in Canada or internationally.
Has nothing to do with quality or legality of the counterfeit product you are so inclined to promote.
How is this defending or allowing or making case for a counterfeit product? Are you just throwing it in knowing that people won't read it?
From the document itself:
But lets get to the Leopold statement:
This are illegal products made with specific attempt to mislead and defraud. I know it and you know it. For a no name rand $100 scope is expensive. If it said "Leopold" on it, $100 is cheap, as we see by excitement created here.
If you still have any doubts why don't you write Leopold and ask them. Why don't you ask any customs broker or even a border guard. "If I knew that these are fake trademarks on my merchandise, is it legal to bring in or ship overseas?" But you know it is not.
PS
I suggest you to start again and allocate more time. Patents have nothing to do with trademarks and they both have nothing to do with copyrights. These are completely different separated things.
Well here it goes again you post a link for people to reference and it starts.
All I am saying is there are Copyrighted names on both sides of the Ocean and that in fact Leupold is already using China as well for their product family but they did not opt to buy their name as BSA did.
So let's keep adding info for others to research and draw their own conclusions and not have this thread purposely shut down as controlling info serves no one. At the end of the day I don't really think you know what you are buying anymore, facts are facts............
I posted comments directly from Leupold admitting they use China for making some of their products and thats a fact so I do not need to email. The M1 and M3s are for sure questionable but as stated it does seem Leupold want to risk their profits for their Chinese resold products and press the matter.
All I am saying is there are Copyrighted names on both sides of the Ocean and that in fact Leupold is already using China as well for their product family but they did not opt to buy their name as BSA did.
So let's keep adding info for others to research and draw their own conclusions and not have this thread purposely shut down as controlling info serves no one. At the end of the day I don't really think you know what you are buying anymore, facts are facts............
I posted comments directly from Leupold admitting they use China for making some of their products and thats a fact so I do not need to email. The M1 and M3s are for sure questionable but as stated it does seem Leupold want to risk their profits for their Chinese resold products and press the matter.
