SAM Commander Stainless

wasrupzuk said:
So what is wrong with SAM's steel?
Or was this a comment on cast vs. forged frames?
If this is it perhaps they should start with Norinco forged blanks?
And why do they need American parts?
Wouldn't they just need accept higher manufacturing standards within their own organization?
At any rate any of these changes would definitely increase the MSRP, how much, who knows...
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SAM's steel is 4140, and of questionable metallurgy. Their source of metal is neither time tested nor well known. This primarily affects longevity of their pistols, which is questionable.

If they move to Norinco forged blanks, which is the best 1911 steel in use today, then you'd see a serious jump in manufacturing costs and labor, as it's tougher metal to shape and work with. Cost will go up too, but still way under any of the custom shop guns in the west.

Ideally, I would want to see a small custom shop in Danao, using the best quality steel with the most experienced gunsmiths, turning out custom guns that would better anything on the market out today, for far less than the same cost of labor in America.

My primary praise for the Filipino made guns is their labor. It's not going to good use seeing guys who are used to spending a week making a custom 1911 in the jungle, be forced onto a production line of sorts and not have complete control over the gun from start to finish. Finding the most skilled gunsmiths and giving them the best quality in steel and machinery, would have them pump out guns that would turn heads around the world.

Give me a few million dollars and I'll do it myself. :)
 
I have, at my club, compared my Thunderbolt, their top of the line SS .45, and my Omega 6, their top of the line 9mm, side by side with all the biggies, Wilson Combat, Kimber, Les Baer, yadda, yadda, yadda. I was satisfied, but more importantly, the other guys were impressed by how it compared. The beauty part was, that together, they cost less then each of the others signally.
 
Whats the world coming to when the best steel in the world for 1911's is Norinco and the best produced pistols are budget priced Filipino crafted specimens.???

Les Baer, Wilson et al must see the handwriting on the wall.
 
redryder said:
Whats the world coming to when the best steel in the world for 1911's is Norinco and the best produced pistols are budget priced Filipino crafted specimens.???

Les Baer, Wilson et al must see the handwriting on the wall.
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This is why CGN is not exactly the most reliable source for reviews....
I have 3 SAMS, all good shooters FOR THE PRICE. 4140 is fine ordinance grade steel that has been used, and is still used for the majority of guns made everywhere around the world. I see no casting pits or flaws in any of my frames or the small MIM parts. I had one gun that had a soft firing pin that obviously missed heat treating. Other then that no issues.
The whole "These are better then ### at twice the price" is just subjective, personal opinion, usually by someone that only owns the one gun.
 
Are all the parts on the Sam's interchangeable with standard 1911's? Like if a guy wanted to change the sights.
Also, looking at the thunderbolts at wolverines, there is a $200 difference between .45 and 9mm. Must be some big differences in specs.
 
redryder said:
Are all the parts on the Sam's interchangeable with standard 1911's? Like if a guy wanted to change the sights.
Also, looking at the thunderbolts at wolverines, there is a $200 difference between .45 and 9mm. Must be some big differences in specs.
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I know the front sight is a Novak cut, I would expect to have to fit any other parts to some degree just like any 1911. The price difference as I understand it is strictly due to the 9s being made in less volume due to less demand, therefore higher prices.
 
redryder said:
Are all the parts on the Sam's interchangeable with standard 1911's? Like if a guy wanted to change the sights.
Also, looking at the thunderbolts at wolverines, there is a $200 difference between .45 and 9mm. Must be some big differences in specs.
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1911's are designed as a .45ACP firearm. Chambering 9mm reliably would need some redesigning of certain parts, probably resulting in a greater price. ;)
 
The reason for the price difference is likely because they always had Thunderbolts in .45 in stock, but the 9mm Thunderbolts are new, so likely will be new price for the .45 when they have to restock. I have the Omega 6, the old top of the line 9mm, so I guess the Thunderbolt replaces it, as it is not there now. Plus, the 9mm has a Two Stage Spring Recoil System, that the .45 does not have. Guess that justifies the price difference.
 
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Conscript said:
The Thunderbolt model from SAM, without a doubt beats anything from Colt or WC. The slide rides so tight, it's as tight as some Les Baers or other high end custom guns.

Machining and fit and finish on everything, from safety levers, to mag ejection is tight and is almost too perfect for the price.
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^^^^This! Mine too! I honestly can not believe the quality, fit and finish this thing has! The Stainless is flawless, there is no rattle at all, smooth as silk action. Honestly take the brand names off and this is as good of a gun as any of the higher end USA made ones at a fraction of the price. This is a keeper!
 
silver69 said:
^^^^This! Mine too! I honestly can not believe the quality, fit and finish this thing has! The Stainless is flawless, there is no rattle at all, smooth as silk action. Honestly take the brand names off and this is as good of a gun as any of the higher end USA made ones at a fraction of the price. This is a keeper!
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Anyone who thinks otherwise, that neither the fit nor finish of the TB is directly comparable to custom 1911 offerings in the USA, is in complete denial that real American craftsmanship that was present in the past is completely gone, and that a small south pacific nation steeped in weapons craftsmanship, have completely taken over -- OR -- they just don't understand that if their gun doesn't have "COLT" or "WILSON COMBAT" on their gun, then it's just not worth a damn thing, let alone something from the Philippines.

Either way, these people will soon realize that the more guns that come out of the Philippines, the more companies like Iver Johnson, STI and so on realize what a complete gold mine the craftsmanship from Danao are, and eventually pack up all factories and move them overseas. We live in a society where CNC machines and mills have completely taken over the art of hand and steel craftsmanship. You need a certain element of pure human skill to put a 1911 together. You can buy all the machines in the world, you still need human hands to get a perfect, and custom fit for every pistol, every time.
 
Conscript said:
Anyone who thinks otherwise, that neither the fit nor finish of the TB is directly comparable to custom 1911 offerings in the USA, is in complete denial that real American craftsmanship that was present in the past is completely gone, and that a small south pacific nation steeped in weapons craftsmanship, have completely taken over -- OR -- they just don't understand that if their gun doesn't have "COLT" or "WILSON COMBAT" on their gun, then it's just not worth a damn thing, let alone something from the Philippines.

Either way, these people will soon realize that the more guns that come out of the Philippines, the more companies like Iver Johnson, STI and so on realize what a complete gold mine the craftsmanship from Danao are, and eventually pack up all factories and move them overseas. We live in a society where CNC machines and mills have completely taken over the art of hand and steel craftsmanship. You need a certain element of pure human skill to put a 1911 together. You can buy all the machines in the world, you still need human hands to get a perfect, and custom fit for every pistol, every time.
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Funny you should mention Iver Johnson!!! One guess who makes their 1911's for them. I will give you a hint.

http://iverjohnsonarms.com/3052/index.html
 
kschneider said:
Funny you should mention Iver Johnson!!! One guess who makes their 1911's for them. I will give you a hint.

http://iverjohnsonarms.com/3052/index.html
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Oh I know, which is why I mentioned them. It's a little known secret that more and more western companies are eying the Philippines. STI is the other, but soon I think eventually we'll see more and more companies lend their name to guns made over there.
 
redryder said:
Are all the parts on the Sam's interchangeable with standard 1911's? Like if a guy wanted to change the sights.
Also, looking at the thunderbolts at wolverines, there is a $200 difference between .45 and 9mm. Must be some big differences in specs.
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My new Thunderbolt has an adjustable LPA rear, same as equipped on many "name brand" 1911s.

Talking to Wolverine last week, the 9mms are new stock and 2015 prices reflecting a shyte Canadian dollar. Almost all gun business transactions are done in US$ whether the source is USA, Germany, Ukraine, China or the Philippines. The new .45s coming in are going to be similar price.

Seraphim Armoury had to change their prices too..
 
OK guys. I drank your cool aid. SAM 1911 Thunderbolt 9mm 5" Polished Stainless ordered from Wolverine as of 10 mins ago. Looking forward to giving this a go and see if the cool aid is as good as y'all say.
Any one know who has 10 rd 1911 magazines in stock?
I already have a few .45's so always wanted one in 9mm.
 
redryder said:
OK guys. I drank your cool aid. SAM 1911 Thunderbolt 9mm 5" Polished Stainless ordered from Wolverine as of 10 mins ago. Looking forward to giving this a go and see if the cool aid is as good as y'all say.
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Nice! I hope you have a great experience and report back to us. Of course every mfg puts out a bad gun from time to time (usually on Monday's Har! Har!) but fingers crossed you get one of the majority that is stellar!
 
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