Tavor or XCR in 223?

I went with a Tavor for the following reasons:

Ergonomics.
Reputation for reliability.
Overall length.
Non-restricted status.
Makes liberals cry.

As far as accuracy goes, i want to be able to put a bullet into an area the size of a mans chest out to 300 yards. That's it and the Tavor does that all day long. Variations of 1/4" here or an 1/8" when it comes down to group sizes is a pointless discussion to me when it comes down to a battle rifle. And that's exactly what this is. If you're really anal-retentive, the precision rifle forum may suit you better.

I've only handled an XCR. Never owned one but the long ass receiver/long pipe attached to it made me shy away from it. It felt like my CZ-858 used to feel which for me was way to long to be useful in anything other than open country. When i'm in thick bush (of which i have acress to about a cagillion acres), or if i'm playing Billy Bad-Ass in any sort of CQB scenario, i want the shortest, most potent, battle proven rifle i can find. And that is the Tavor.
 
Dorian Gray said:
If you're really anal-retentive, the precision rifle forum may suit you better.
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This is really really offensive. So is my take away from this comment that it is against the forum etiquette to do anything other than mindlessly accept inherent inaccuracy within this thread?

Are we not permitted to discuss accuracy here?

Yes I am mostly a long range F-class shooter. (There it is, I'm out of the closet) I understand the hows and whys of accuracy and I would certainly prefer intelligent feedback regarding a reasonably accurate and reliable rifle of this type. No I will not be using this rifle for F-Class and I don't expect F-class accracy. I thought this point was made pretty clear above.

Christ almighty, where do these people come from?

And this thread was going so well.
 
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onetwentyish said:
The one rifle that I think you are missing in your consideration and would probably suite you best is a ACR. If you buy a Restricted ACR (new or used) and send it to Herron Arms he can rebarrel it to Non-Restricted status exactly the way you want it, and I have heard of people squeezing 1-1.5moa out of them consistently.
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This is really interesting. I could never find an NR version of this rifle, but that does make it an option.
 
I shot a 1 Moa 5 rnd group , using 53g Hornady vmax, and repeated it with a hand load , using 53 g vmax bullets and 26.2 g of CFE 223. I was shooting a XCR-L 1/9 HB keymod and a $100 3x9 bushnell banner scope. 100 yards and a led sled . The XCR- L is also available with 1/8 and 1/7 twist. I will also add that I only have about a year experience with Black rifles and 4 months experience reloading . So I can't really say if this helps or not :)
 
BadAsMo said:
This is really really offensive. So is my take away from this comment that it is against the forum etiquette to do anything other than mindlessly accept inherent inaccuracy within this thread?

Are we not permitted to discuss accuracy here?

Yes I am mostly a long range F-class shooter. (There it is, I'm out of the closet) I understand the hows and whys of accuracy and I would certainly prefer intelligent feedback regarding a reasonably accurate and reliable rifle of this type. No I will not be using this rifle for F-Class and I don't expect F-class accracy. I thought this point was made pretty clear above.

Christ almighty, where do these people come from?

And this thread was going so well.
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Calm yourself, friend. I hadn't intended to offend anyone. The point i was getting at, even stated it i think, was that these rifles are not mean't to be benchrest rifles and the "Is the Tavor an accurate platform?" question has been done to death in this forum and others. I wasn't trying to be snarky. I was merely stating that the Tavor is a battle rifle. It was designed that way and because of that, the accuracy potential is limited to exactly what a battle rifle is meant to do. I see little point in it but hell, if you guys want to discuss variations of 1/4" or 1/8" when speaking of accuracy for a rifle that was meant to be used under the highest stress situations one can encounter in life, don't let me hold you back.

Form the record, I think F-Class is the $hit and it takes a lot of time and patience (both admirable traits) to participate in a sport like that.
 
onetwentyish said:
The Tavor may have the barrel you want, but thats meaningless to you if you can't get the accuracy you want out of it. Mikethebike has done 2 ammo/accuracy tests with his Tavor. He has been able to squeeze 1.75moa out of Hornady z-max.

The XCR has had its issues sorted out and is at a higher standard than ever with the new keymod model.

The one rifle that I think you are missing in your consideration and would probably suite you best is a ACR. If you buy a Restricted ACR (new or used) and send it to Herron Arms he can rebarrel it to Non-Restricted status exactly the way you want it, and I have heard of people squeezing 1-1.5moa out of them consistently.
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Yah I'll continue my second ammo test in May, way too busy with this new house at the moment.

Ive noticed with the Tavor, that accuracy is really dependent on 2 things on the rifle and 1 thing on the shooter.
rifle:
1 quality ammo
2 a cold barrel
shooter:
Control the trigger and breathing and you'll be just fine.

Is the tavor an accurate platform?
Im not sure I am entitled here to make that assumption since ai'm pretty much just a 1 moa shooter and i'm ok with that since my idea of fun is popping clays at 200 yards, the tavor is plenty accurate for that. Im not a fantastic shooter, pretty much just plain mediocre really. Im not military, special forces, swat team, team canada olympics athlete, reconnaissance, so really I dont have the requirements some of you have on a platform.

Is the tavor good enough for me? Absolutely

Has the tavor ever failed me in any way, whatsoever, ever? No

Is my d!ck still attached even after firing wimchester white box? Yes

Are there better rifles that the tavor? Absolutely

Why do I own one then? Because its awesome!
 
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Brianma65 said:
I shot a 1 Moa 5 rnd group , using 53g Hornady vmax, and repeated it with a hand load , using 53 g vmax bullets and 26.2 g of CFE 223. I was shooting a XCR-L 1/9 HB keymod and a $100 3x9 bushnell banner scope. 100 yards and a led sled . The XCR- L is also available with 1/8 and 1/7 twist. I will also add that I only have about a year experience with Black rifles and 4 months experience reloading . So I can't really say if this helps or not :)
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....annnndddd,there it is! Had to search thru near 3 pages of responses before somebody finally pointed out that the XCR is indeed available in 1:7 and 1:8.Just a quick look at Wolverine's inventory it appears they currently only have the faster twists available on older quad rail/HB models....but perhaps one can order a 1:7 light barrel keymod?
 
grinrgrn said:
....annnndddd,there it is! Had to search thru near 3 pages of responses before somebody finally pointed out that the XCR is indeed available in 1:7 and 1:8.Just a quick look at Wolverine's inventory it appears they currently only have the faster twists available on older quad rail/HB models....but perhaps one can order a 1:7 light barrel keymod?
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I have been contacted by Wolverine and it looks like they are in the process of placing their next order so it's time to spec something out.
 
BadAsMo said:
I have been contacted by Wolverine and it looks like they are in the process of placing their next order so it's time to spec something out.
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Any word as to whether they'll be bringing in .300BLK conversions?

QU Brian/"I'm pretty sure you can order a 1/7 barrel. I had a 1/8 HB ordered for my keymod, but got impatient and took the 1/9."
If I had the choice,I also wanted the 1:8 HB,but I'm also impatient,not to mention I was able to beat the $300 2015 price increase (plus shipping too I guess) by settling for the 1:9 lite bbl in stock at CSC.I "was" planning to get the HB and get it fluted but.....no complaints with the pencil barrel thus far?Thought I might just order a 1:8 HB eventually,but now I'm leaning more towards giving the .300BLK priority over getting another 5.56 bbl.
 
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Yesterday, shooting the Tavor: 62gr fmj Federals(?), off-hand at 100yds, open sights, rapid fire, I put 8 out of 10 on the paper (which was like15"x20" target... 'torso' size). It was actually a pretty decent group, considering I was just messing around.

This was using an LAR-15 mag, which functioned flawlessly (oh by the way...).

I have a Meprolight M21 with Bullseye reticle coming. Should be interesting to see what that will do.
 
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