im assuming this brass is non good anymore?

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Dents aren't deep enough. As mentioned, the next firing will iron 'em out. No safety issue at all.
Look on your rifle for a wee brass mark to see where it's bashing 'em. Kind of a distinctive mark. Suspect that sharp corner on the op handle. Might be a rifle lube thing.
Don't recall anybody asking about Mini-14's doing this. Happens regularly with M1 Rifles(et al) though. Their case mouths get bashed on the receiver on the way out.
 
ALMAR said:
Hey maybe your right, but I would still chuck them. Maybe my experience analyzing these kinds of structural defects made me paranoid. Huge machined parts made from everything like steel, aluminum, titanium...splitting in half because of a small scratch etc...Some of those dents look pronounced enough to have cause some significant cold work... but yeah brass is soft so maybe...but I would still chuck them, I have a good budget for brass and would not bother with any doubt. Nothing to do with ninny state or the evil internet... whatever that means.
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well cases for the most part are not turned they are drawn. the whole point of reloading is to not spend a lot of money if you only get 1 firing out of a case what's the point I can get over 20 reloads out of .303 brass that's been fire formed neck sized and annealed when needed
 
LUTNIT said:
I would have to disagree with this point. The heat persists for such an infinitesimally tiny amount of time the cases only increase in temperature a few degrees with each firing. I'm not sure what the flame temperature of nitrocellulose is but you would need a continuous supply of it burning on a metal for quite a while (minutes at least) to get any temperature in the thousands. It's similar to how a person can easily pass their hand through an open flame without even the slightest burn but if you hold it there, you will definitely get burned.
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Have you ever actually touched a piece of brass right out of the chamber? A few degrees my @ss. Rimfire cases are hot enough to burn skin. I've seen it happen. You ever see someone do the dance when a hot case goes down a t-shirt? That isn't happening because a case temp rose only a few degrees.

No, brass cases don't get red hot but surface wise they are undergoing a very serious process during the firing process.
 
The way I look at it. Worst case scenario is it cracks in the dented spot, (the case is sealed to the chamber so not much gas escapes) and you throw it away... Quite a lot of surplus ammo has cracked cases right from factory and I have not heard of any issues arising from that.
My .02. If you aren't comfortable, then toss away.
 
ALMAR said:
Hey maybe your right, but I would still chuck them. Maybe my experience analyzing these kinds of structural defects made me paranoid. Huge machined parts made from everything like steel, aluminum, titanium...splitting in half because of a small scratch etc...Some of those dents look pronounced enough to have cause some significant cold work... but yeah brass is soft so maybe...but I would still chuck them, I have a good budget for brass and would not bother with any doubt. Nothing to do with ninny state or the evil internet... whatever that means.
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Does your analytical experience involve any kind of statistical analysis of the frequency of such failures? Take a look at how often case walls fail due to dents or scratches in brass. Of all the places a case fails, that location has probably the lowest frequency of all and case failures are not all that common compared to the number of rounds loaded and fired. The potential frequency of the failure you are so terrified of is so low as to approach zero.

If you are still concerned, consider what happens when cases are formed from other cases or what occurs during the Ackley Improved process. Those changes in the case shape are orders of magnitude more than a small dent. Yet we do not hear of modified or AI cases failing at a higher rate than conventionally manufactured cases.

Your logic is akin to seeing one person injured by a seatbelt and thus claiming seatbelt use is dangerous. The frequency rates just don't add up.
 
Suputin said:
Have you ever actually touched a piece of brass right out of the chamber? A few degrees my @ss. Rimfire cases are hot enough to burn skin. I've seen it happen. You ever see someone do the dance when a hot case goes down a t-shirt? That isn't happening because a case temp rose only a few degrees.

No, brass cases don't get red hot but surface wise they are undergoing a very serious process during the firing process.
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You're partially right and partially wrong. I was thinking larger cases like 308 Win. but different cases do increase in temperature quite a bit more or less than others. Out of a cold chamber (where the only heat is from the powder, not from residual heat built up in the steel) a HV 22lr case (1200fps or so) is quite hot. Hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold but not hot enough to burn in my experience (you'll say *ouch* but not have any marks on your skin). If you've been firing for a while and your barrel and chamber are getting quite hot, there will be heat transferred from both the steel and the burning powder which will increase the heat in the case quite a bit more. It is at this point a 22lr case will burn skin. I've had 22lr cases out of a hot 10/22 that's been rapid fired for a couple mags burn and stick to my skin where I need to knock them off or they stay attached. Mind you this is not the heat from the firing of a single round; most of the heat is being transferred from the steel to the brass.

Handgun rounds also use faster powders like 22lr and heat up quite a bit more. Again though a round out of a cold chamber in 9mm can still be handled with bare skin without burns (though it can be uncomfortable).
It doesn't approach even close to "several thousand degrees" though because if it did, brass would self-anneal upon firing. Why to cases work harden with firing and need to be annealed? Because they don't reach the recrystallization (annealing) temperature. In brass that is only 600-900'F; not even one-thousand degrees.

When I said a few degrees I really did mean a few degrees but I was talking about rifle cases. I catch my brass cases (223, 308, 6.5x55, 7.62x54R, etc. etc.) in my hand when I eject them out of a bolt action because several of my rifles throw the cases a couple feet and I don't want to chase after them. Even if the barrel and chamber are too hot to touch the cases still come out only a little warm unless I let it sit in the chamber for a while. Out of a cool chamber the cases come out barely noticeably warmer than when I put them in. In a semi where you've allowed the chamber and barrel to heat up quite a bit there is going to be quite a bit of heat transfer from the steel to the brass; accumulated heat from many previous firings of a few degrees each all adding together.
 
Suputin said:
Does your analytical experience involve any kind of statistical analysis of the frequency of such failures? Take a look at how often case walls fail due to dents or scratches in brass. Of all the places a case fails, that location has probably the lowest frequency of all and case failures are not all that common compared to the number of rounds loaded and fired. The potential frequency of the failure you are so terrified of is so low as to approach zero.

If you are still concerned, consider what happens when cases are formed from other cases or what occurs during the Ackley Improved process. Those changes in the case shape are orders of magnitude more than a small dent. Yet we do not hear of modified or AI cases failing at a higher rate than conventionally manufactured cases.

Your logic is akin to seeing one person injured by a seatbelt and thus claiming seatbelt use is dangerous. The frequency rates just don't add up.
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Look man, I don't really feel like hashing it out here, a case head separation or split near the case head is unlikely to occur due to this dent and it's really the only thing one should be worried about. If you really need to save that much go ahead and reuse it. Like I said before, I personally would chuck it out and fix the problem if possible or sell the gun if not...that it.
 
Sell the gun? Whoohoo. You do know this is a common event with most semi-autos? He could go through 1000 guns and the semi-auto would still dent the brass. There is NO PROBLEM. This is essentially how the rifle is designed to function.

If you are so worried about a dent causing a case failure then one might suggest you find a safer sport ... like tiddly winks or jigsaw puzzles.
 
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Well op I apologize for this BS on your thread.

Suputin, I seriously wouldn't give two sh1ts about your bs advice or attempts at playing forum tough guy you loser, you speak to anybody like that face to face and you'll get you ass handed to you believe me. Most semi autos don't do that kind of damage on cases. Save you BS for the unititated.
 
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If your concerned don't reload them, there are plenty to pick up. I personally have reloaded dented brass with out issue, but its how you feel that counts not what i have done.

If you don't reload them save them up for scarp later on.

I usually pick up 223 brass every range visit, around 50 each visit.

Thank you people who leave me brass to collect :)
 
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ALMAR said:
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Well op I apologize for this BS on your thread.

Suputin, I seriously wouldn't give two sh1ts about your bs advice or attempts at playing forum tough guy you loser, you speak to anybody like that face to face and you'll get you ass handed to you believe me. Most semi autos don't do that kind of damage on cases. Save you BS for the unititated.
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AHHH HAAA HAAA HAAA HAAAAAAA.

My favourite thing about the internets is people who can't follow a logical argument. Accuse me of playing internet tough guy and then tell me I'm gonna get my ass handed to me all in the same sentence. I'm sure there is an irony in there somewhere.

And as to how I speak to people, ask those who know me, this is how I am in real life. Never been gotten into trouble with it cause the internets tough guys are not so tough in person.

Don't go away butt-hurt ....... just go away. Maybe knit a sweater to make yourself feel better.


Hey, did you happen to notice that most of the other experienced reloaders posting here have said the same thing as me?
 
hum I see that I mistakenly took the short bus and started arguing with the "special" kid here...continue repeating what others say, it's all you can do, for anything else your out of your league, learn to deal with that.

The problem is, little man, that this has not been about dents in brass for the last few posts. I gave plenty of chances to diffuse this but you keep at it like the insecure like prick that you are.

So maybe you want to take this little fight to the PM arena out of respect for the OP and others who don't care too much for reading how your butt hurts and you like to knit. Thing is pal, closet girly men always seem to be the first to accuse others of it...in this case you seem as pink as pink can be.
 
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WayUpNorth (The OP)

The ammo develops up to 60,000psi. The yield strength of brass is much less than that. It is the chamber walls (steel) that take the pressure, not the case walls. The case, forward of the case head, is just a container to hold the powder and bullet.

The structural part of the case is the case head area. Say, the 1/4" section. If you look closely at the action, with the bolt closed there is a small gap from the bolt face to where the chamber supports the case. The gap is not only the distance from bolt face to barrel, but also any unsupported area at the mouth of the chamber, such as a champfer or feed ramp. When the gun is fired, something has to plug that gap. The solid brass case head does that.

If you are concerned about safety, the part of the case that matters is the case head. The rest is cosmetic. Those dents are ordinary, minor and purely cosmetic.

We need some P51 graphics here....
 
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ALMAR said:
hum I see that I mistakenly took the short bus and started arguing with the "special" kid here...continue repeating what others say, it's all you can do, for anything else your out of your league, learn to deal with that.

The problem is, little man, that this has not been about dents in brass for the last few posts. I gave plenty of chances to diffuse this but you keep at it like the insecure like prick that you are.

So maybe you want to take this little fight to the PM arena out of respect for the OP and others who don't care too much for reading how your butt hurts and you like to knit. Thing is pal, closet girly men always seem to be the first to accuse others of it...in this case you seem as pink as pink can be.
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Phhtt OK.
 
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